How much neck tension should i be adding ? Im going to buy the Redding s type FL bushing die and would like to know what size bushings to get . Ill be loading 223Rem .
Redding s type FL bushing die
- Thread starter Reloader000
- Start date
Generally speaking - I'd look for a bushing that's .002"-.003" under loaded neck diameter. If you're shooting an autoloader than I'd add a bit of crimp to resist bullet setback.
For bolt guns .002 to .003 is good but in some cases a rifle may shoot better .004. It pays to test both ways up and down to see what your particular rifle wants to shoot best at.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
The neck thickness of the brand of brass you'll be using is also a critical component of this equation. They are not all the same. Generally speaking, I've used bushings in the 0.245" to 0.248" range with Redding type S dies for almost everything I've done in reloading .223 Rem over the years. The vast majority of that work was done with 0.247" and 0.248" bushings, with a desired neck tension/interference fit of .002" to .0025". However, this was prinicpally Lapua brass with a couple other brands thrown in more recently. Lapua brass sized with a 0.248" bushing should yield pretty close to .002" neck tension, meaning sized Lapua brass necks that measure 0.248" before seating a bullet should measure very close to 0.250" after seating a bullet. I like to use .002" to .0025" neck tension for precision reloads with a bolt rifle, maybe .003" to .004" in an AR-type piston gun.
My suggestion would be to take some measurements of the brass you intend to use before buying any bushings, if at all possible. Seat a bullet in a piece of brass and measure the outside neck diameter. This will provide a rough guide as to the bushings you may want to purchase; i.e. if you're aiming for .002" neck tension, you'd want a bushing that was .002" under the neck diameter with a seated bullet, and so forth. Just be aware that you may not obtain the exact neck diameter that is stamped into the bushing. They will ususally be within .0005" of the indicated diameter, but even that isn't always written in stone. I wouldn't worry about that when ordering bushings, as you'll find out what neck diameter they yield once you have them. I would also mention that buying a few steel bushings when you're first starting out is less painful ($$$) than jumping straight in with titanium nitride bushings. The steel bushings work just fine and may allow you to start with a wider range of bushing sizes without breaking the bank. Once you know the bushing size you wish to use, you can then buy a single bushing of that diameter in titanium nitride, if desired.
My suggestion would be to take some measurements of the brass you intend to use before buying any bushings, if at all possible. Seat a bullet in a piece of brass and measure the outside neck diameter. This will provide a rough guide as to the bushings you may want to purchase; i.e. if you're aiming for .002" neck tension, you'd want a bushing that was .002" under the neck diameter with a seated bullet, and so forth. Just be aware that you may not obtain the exact neck diameter that is stamped into the bushing. They will ususally be within .0005" of the indicated diameter, but even that isn't always written in stone. I wouldn't worry about that when ordering bushings, as you'll find out what neck diameter they yield once you have them. I would also mention that buying a few steel bushings when you're first starting out is less painful ($$$) than jumping straight in with titanium nitride bushings. The steel bushings work just fine and may allow you to start with a wider range of bushing sizes without breaking the bank. Once you know the bushing size you wish to use, you can then buy a single bushing of that diameter in titanium nitride, if desired.
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Great advice. /\ /\ /\
The other issue is whether you use the supplied expander 'ball' or not. If you read Redding's words on the die, there are two scenarios:
1) You're using out of the box cases which often have neck-thickness variations, both within an individual neck at different points on the circumference, and between cases. The advice here is to retain the ball and select a bushing diameter that sees the ball barely 'kiss' the inside walls as they're drawn back over it. (Not using the ball produces round/concentric/consistent O/D exterior neck surfaces, but transfers any thickness variations to the I/D surfaces and the bullet ends up pushing the brass back to a circular form.
2) You've turned the neck outside surfaces to reduce or eliminate wall thickness variations (or the brass as manufactured is superb and/or thickness batched using a tubing type mic). Then remove the 'ball' and every case should be closely dimensioned inside as well as outside on the necks.
Option/situation 1) means that bushing size is less critical as the 'ball' determines the final amount of size. However, as large a bushing diameter as possible should be used to minimise both the amount of sizing-down and subsequent expansion. Option 2) sees the bushing diameter as the sole determinant of neck tension on the bullet - but only if cases are very consistent in their neck dimensions. Lots of neck variations see resulting neck tension variations.
Redding used to sell an optional low-friction nitride ball at additional cost for use in the S-die, don't know if they still do. With that and some inside case-neck lubing, this die provides very good results with decent quality brass straight out of the box and without any 'clean-up' neck-turning. I've used this set-up for a lot of my 308 Win brass for getting on for 20 years and with the correct bushing selected to suit the neck-thickness, the press reverse/expand stroke is so effortless (and as a result so low-stress on the case) that it's barely felt on the press handle.
1) You're using out of the box cases which often have neck-thickness variations, both within an individual neck at different points on the circumference, and between cases. The advice here is to retain the ball and select a bushing diameter that sees the ball barely 'kiss' the inside walls as they're drawn back over it. (Not using the ball produces round/concentric/consistent O/D exterior neck surfaces, but transfers any thickness variations to the I/D surfaces and the bullet ends up pushing the brass back to a circular form.
2) You've turned the neck outside surfaces to reduce or eliminate wall thickness variations (or the brass as manufactured is superb and/or thickness batched using a tubing type mic). Then remove the 'ball' and every case should be closely dimensioned inside as well as outside on the necks.
Option/situation 1) means that bushing size is less critical as the 'ball' determines the final amount of size. However, as large a bushing diameter as possible should be used to minimise both the amount of sizing-down and subsequent expansion. Option 2) sees the bushing diameter as the sole determinant of neck tension on the bullet - but only if cases are very consistent in their neck dimensions. Lots of neck variations see resulting neck tension variations.
Redding used to sell an optional low-friction nitride ball at additional cost for use in the S-die, don't know if they still do. With that and some inside case-neck lubing, this die provides very good results with decent quality brass straight out of the box and without any 'clean-up' neck-turning. I've used this set-up for a lot of my 308 Win brass for getting on for 20 years and with the correct bushing selected to suit the neck-thickness, the press reverse/expand stroke is so effortless (and as a result so low-stress on the case) that it's barely felt on the press handle.
First thing I do with all my Type "S" dies as well.
We have Redding dies but certainly prefer these from Wilson.
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