308 FL Type S Bushing die for 260 rem

[spife7980]

Eric, you run out of gas and then you turn into some kind of a dysfunctional social media type, how do you act in public? I can only guess if not for the Internet you would not have a life.

F. Guffey

No, its just that its super frustrating arguing the same stuff day after day with a dumb guffey

 

[Prose]

Going from 30 cal to 260 I started at .333 outside neck diameter, went to .312, and then .291.

.312 is approximately where you would be with a 7mm. The step from .312 to .291 was effortless with no issues. With most cases, I assume it could be done in a single pass.

 

[fguffey]

What about 7mm to 6.5mm?

I use forming dies, I understand there are those that started with "there is no difference", the shoulder diameter at the case body/shoulder juncture is .001" larger in diameter and the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head is .001" longer; that is a difference.

F. Guffey

 

[Prose]

True, there is a difference of one thousandth, but the difference between reamers and deviation within saami is likely greater. If you look at the specs of reamer makers they are usually the exact same.

 

[fguffey]

True, there is a difference of one thousandth, but the difference between reamers and deviation within saami is likely greater.

We should all know SAAMI is going to have a maximum and a minimum, and I know there is no such thing as reloaders agreeing, if a reloaders wanted to know the length of the case from the datum to the case head I suggest they purchases R. Lee's book on modern reloadiong, I can not recommend Steve's page because he did not use datums and case length from the datum to the case head. R. Lee did not furnish chamber specifications, none of this stuff drive me to the curb.

F. Guffey

 

[ImBIllT]

I'm necking down brass for use in an AI. AI cartridges don't use the datum for head space. I necked down a couple of cases and used a home made .300"(my reamer has a .300" neck) comparator to place the .300" portion of the shoulder the distance from case that I desired, and used those cases as gauges. I just wanted to use a custom comp sizer to neck the rest in an effort to get better concentricity, and hopefully egret accuracy during fire-forming. If the gun will shoot while fire-forming, I would prefer to use its barrel life at a match rather than just burning through components and barrel life at the range forming cases. I've never necked down with a bushing die, and thought it worth asking before messing up an RWS case.

Also, I was under the impression that forming dies were not usually designed simply for necking up or down, but rather for forming cartridges that differed by more than neck diameter i.e. 6mm Rem from 30-06.

 

[Prose]

I'm necking down brass for use in an AI. AI cartridges don't use the datum for head space. I necked down a couple of cases and used a home made .300"(my reamer has a .300" neck) comparator to place the .300" portion of the shoulder the distance from case that I desired, and used those cases as gauges. I just wanted to use a custom comp sizer to neck the rest in an effort to get better concentricity, and hopefully egret accuracy during fire-forming. If the gun will shoot while fire-forming, I would prefer to use its barrel life at a match rather than just burning through components and barrel life at the range forming cases. I've never necked down with a bushing die, and thought it worth asking before messing up an RWS case.

Also, I was under the impression that forming dies were not usually designed simply for necking up or down, but rather for forming cartridges that differed by more than neck diameter i.e. 6mm Rem from 30-06.

6mm Rem is a necked down 7x57 or something similar to that.

You are correct, form and/or trim dies are for the big movements where the shoulder is moved significantly. To neck down a cartridge you would not use one, but to take a 30-06 case and turn it into a .308 or 6.5x51 Jap you would need them ***most of the time*** to get good performance out of the brass. Trying to move the shoulder with a standard die creates wrinkles and cracked necks, head separation and probably poisons your dog too. Sounds like you know what your doing though.

 

[ImBIllT]

6mm Rem is a necked down 7x57 or something similar to that.

You are correct, form and/or trim dies are for the big movements where the shoulder is moved significantly. To neck down a cartridge you would not use one, but to take a 30-06 case and turn it into a .308 or 6.5x51 Jap you would need them ***most of the time*** to get good performance out of the brass. Trying to move the shoulder with a standard die creates wrinkles and cracked necks, head separation and probably poisons your dog too. Sounds like you know what your doing though.

The easy way to make 6mm Rem would be from 257 Rob or 7x57. There are however those that form it from 30-06 family cases due to availability issues. I'm using 7x57 to form 6.5-257 AI.

 

[fguffey]

but to take a 30-06 case and turn it into a .308 or 6.5x51 Jap you would need them ***most of the time***

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd65x50arisaka.jpg

"Need them most of the time", if the case head diameter of the 6.5mm50 Ariaska is .447" the person doing the forming is going to need something I have never seen. I have found other advantages to forming 308W from 30/06 cases; there are times the chamber neck is generous. I hear a lot of talk about machine gun chambers and cases fired in machineguns, and then there have been many bolt rifles built with machine gun barrels. POINT? I was asked to make a shop call, seems a builder of bench rest type rifles with very heavy barrels had a problem with a rifle he build and sold to an Internet savvy reloader. He was complaining about 'loose necks'; I ask about accuracy, there was no way to improve on accuracy so I boxed up a bunch of dies and went for a visit. We settled on LC NATIONAL MATCH 30/06 cases, I formed 300 cases. By using part of the case body to form the case necks the clearance between the neck of the case neck and chamber neck was .002".

Problem, the owner of the rifle does not want to share his cases and or leave them laying around on the ground at the firing range because the thick necked 308W cases will not allow the bullet to be released willingly. And then there is annealing.

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

Guffey there is a lot of stuff you cannot imagine much less have seen.
I think your post is BS through and through.
.30-06 LC Match is not marked 30-06. That is precisely why I used it to make 25-06 brass more than 40 years ago.
I also used 7.62 LC Match brass to make 6.5 Jap for the same reason. It is not marked with caliber nomenclature either. And yes I swaged the head of the 7.62 brass down to .450 to fit the chamber of my rifle.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd65x50arisaka.jpg

"Need them most of the time", if the case head diameter of the 6.5mm50 Ariaska is .447" the person doing the forming is going to need something I have never seen. I have found other advantages to forming 308W from 30/06 cases; there are times the chamber neck is generous. I hear a lot of talk about machine gun chambers and cases fired in machineguns, and then there have been many bolt rifles built with machine gun barrels. POINT? I was asked to make a shop call, seems a builder of bench rest type rifles with very heavy barrels had a problem with a rifle he build and sold to an Internet savvy reloader. He was complaining about 'loose necks'; I ask about accuracy, there was no way to improve on accuracy so I boxed up a bunch of dies and went for a visit. We settled on LC NATIONAL MATCH 30/06 cases, I formed 300 cases. By using part of the case body to form the case necks the clearance between the neck of the case neck and chamber neck was .002".

Problem, the owner of the rifle does not want to share his cases and or leave them laying around on the ground at the firing range because the thick necked 308W cases will not allow the bullet to be released willingly. And then there is annealing.

F. Guffey

 

[Bart B.]

Eric said shoulder angles are the same for both.

Then this shows up:

Respectfully Eric, that's bogus info! Take the two casings and set them side by side and then look at the shoulder angle. Or compare the measurements using a Precision Mic. If that's the same, then I must be blinder than I thought.

SAAMI specs state 20 degrees for both. What tolerances exist across chambers, cases and measuring tools determines the microscopic differences one may see measuring stuff the best they can.

Precision Mic's and other case headspace gauges do not measure case shoulder angles relative to anything. That's best done with a 50X optical comparitor.

 

[Prose]

Well everybody thanks for the great info. Bart B the poster of that one later conducted a test and reported back his results and confirmed that he was initially incorrect, like an adult. This post was about doing something abnormal, so abnormal results were expected. Everything worked, it's been confirmed to me. Thanks everyone.

 

[Bart B.]

Well everybody thanks for the great info. Bart B the poster of that one later conducted a test and reported back his results and confirmed that he was initially incorrect, like an adult.

Good to see someone admitting then correcting a mistake. I respect them.

 

[Prose]

So for anyone that might still be interested in this topic, I have perfected the process of using a Redding 308 Type S FL sizing die for 260 Rem.

First, size the body with no bushings.

Second, utilizing bushings, unscrew the die .044 -.050 depending on your individual measurements. This will allow precise neck sizing while accommodating for the different shoulder junction length. Doing this has given me absolute perfect results with no fire forming needed. Measurements are exactly the same as using the proper equipment. In other news, please see my short poem below about how this forum has inspired me.
-----------
For some people, being
Grumpy and
Utilizing the internet to escape from
Feeling
Frumpy all the time is harder than
Easily
Yielding to knowledge.

Instead of
Stating the same

Asinine

Fool Hardy
Under
Charged
Kid-Like Argument about
Insidious sizing capabilities, perhaps you should just admit you are frumpy, because
No one would like it more than to see you admit to this
Glorious group of people that you are an

Idiot.
-----------
I know the poem is bad, it's just not in my nature to deviate from my natural prose.

 

[ISS]

I am so glad I made 100 pieces of 260 Remington brass from some Hornady 308 Match once fired brass before reading this diatribe between second graders...

I have now shot and reloaded the cases in my AR-10 260 Remington without any fireworks and sub-2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

That said, pissing contests are always entertaining...

ISS

PS: Prose, your version of Haiku was fairly well done.

 

[ISS]

I am so glad I made 100 pieces of 260 Remington brass from some Hornady 308 Match once fired brass before reading this diatribe between second graders...

I have now shot and reloaded the cases in my AR-10 260 Remington without any fireworks and sub-2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

That said, pissing contests are always entertaining...

ISS

PS: Prose, your version of Haiku was fairly well done.

 

[El Matador]

this diatribe between second graders...

FYI this post is 7 years old. All these guys are in 9th grade now.

 

[ISS]

Jeez! Wait until puberty hits...

ISS