Redding body die— very short headspace

[divingin]

Are you saying that people are running super-short chambers or--as Walt explained-- that they have very hard brass that doesn't get enough bump with regular dies?

The die is made to size the majority of brass to the needs of the majority of chambers. So yeah, it may be made to be able to size brass for the few people with really short chambers (think about how you'd feel if you spent money on a die to find out it wouldn't size brass for your rifle...) It still does longer chambers by adjusting how far you run the brass in.

If you want something that matches your needs exactly, go custom and have a die made for your brass/chamber combo. Otherwise, you'll have to adjust things like the rest of us thin-wallet types.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Keith, are you using the type S Redding dies?

Both those and one-piece. I always start with a one piece die to minimize runout.

 

[McHaggis]

By way of explanation ; a "Body Die" is designed to reduce the diameter of the case , back to "so-called" SAAMI spec , and by doing this , that brass has to go somewhere . The only logical place for it to go is towards the case-mouth . Thus increasing the over-all length of the case , and also adding to the length of the "Bump-back" of the shoulder . After the Body-Die , re-size with the die you normally use , but you may find out you need to trim and de-burr again . Body Dies are made for Diameter reduction . Not length or chamber sizing .

Am I missing something here??? I use a Redding body die to resize my brass, including shoulder bump and wouldn't ever consider pushing the brass into another sizing die?????
I only neck size after the body die.
It certainly works to resize the brass to, as you put it, "length and chamber sizing". Just trying to clarify in case a newbe gets the wrong end of the handle.

This makes no sense.... "Body Dies are made for Diameter reduction . Not length or chamber sizing ."

 

[47WillysGuy]

This makes no sense.... "Body Dies are made for Diameter reduction . Not length or chamber sizing ."

I also have been thinking about that statement, and it also makes no sense to me either. I use a Redding body die for case sizing. My case head space is about 0.002” just where the bolt drops freely. My body die effects both the diameter and the case head space. Not just the case diameter.

 

[wagonman]

redding body die, lee collet neck die is my combo setup

 

[cem]

Are these body dies designed to require the competition shell holder kit?

Im seeing nearly 0.007” more shoulder bump with the die in hard contact with the Redding shell holder than I get with my Forster sizer at similar contact to the same shell holder. The net bump with the Forster is perfect. With the Redding body die it is excessive. (Fired in chamber right at go gauge plus 0.002”).

Notice that Forster sells Match sizing dies for gas guns with more bump than the sizing die for bolt guns in the same cartridge. Results are not achieved by going through the motions but by using the equipment intelligently.

Myself I have and use competition shell holder kits but I often use a Forster CoAx with the built in shell holder with my Redding dies. The user controls the process. Going through the motions and blaming the equipment for the results is not a controlled process.

 

[dkhunt14]

Dies vary from one to the next. We took ten Redding Dasher dies and no two were alike. Some bumped more then others, some made them smaller at the shoulder junction and some made them smaller at the base. That's why they put threads on them, so you can adjust.

I have seen many dies that wouldn't hardly bump at all with full contact and some where they bumped entirely way to much. I like the die shims to adjust, I back off the die ring and thread the die in so it cams a fair amount. Now I screw the die ring down and tighten the set screw. Now I can all the bump the die is capable of and by adding shims I can make it to where I need it. By camming the die and locking the ring, the die is under pressure and takes the slop out the threads, which makes the die straight in the press. Then when you run the ring down and lock it, it is straight. When you put in a shim and turn the die against, it will be straight. Matt

 

[Hohn]

Notice that Forster sells Match sizing dies for gas guns with more bump than the sizing die for bolt guns in the same cartridge. Results are not achieved by going through the motions but by using the equipment intelligently.

Myself I have and use competition shell holder kits but I often use a Forster CoAx with the built in shell holder with my Redding dies. The user controls the process. Going through the motions and blaming the equipment for the results is not a controlled process.

No, they sell a match die— singular— for .308. That’s the extent of their shorter match die catalog.

I don’t know where you’re getting this idea of equipment “blaming.” I made a simple observation: all else being equal, the Redding body die I have has a lot more shoulder bump than my Forster.

That’s it. This extra bump makes sense for competition shell holders, so I asked.

The rest exists on the imagination of the critics responding with condescension.

 

[Hohn]

Dies vary from one to the next. We took ten Redding Dasher dies and no two were alike. Some bumped more then others, some made them smaller at the shoulder junction and some made them smaller at the base. That's why they put threads on them, so you can adjust.

I have seen many dies that wouldn't hardly bump at all with full contact and some where they bumped entirely way to much. I like the die shims to adjust, I back off the die ring and thread the die in so it cams a fair amount. Now I screw the die ring down and tighten the set screw. Now I can all the bump the die is capable of and by adding shims I can make it to where I need it. By camming the die and locking the ring, the die is under pressure and takes the slop out the threads, which makes the die straight in the press. Then when you run the ring down and lock it, it is straight. When you put in a shim and turn the die against, it will be straight. Matt

I also like the shim approach which I achieve via feeler gauges.

 

[qldreloader]

redding body die, lee collet neck die is my combo setup

Same here. Collet neck size followed by Redding Body die to bump shoulder 2 thou. I have the competition shell holder sets but they are not necessary.

 

[Iowa Fox]

redding body die, lee collet neck die is my combo setup

I agree with you but try finding a old style collet neck sizer in 6mm Creedmoor. Very few old style made and the guys that have them will not part with them.

 

[Mark W]

I agree with you but try finding a old style collet neck sizer in 6mm Creedmoor. Very few old style made and the guys that have them will not part with them.

Its a real shame they felt the need to change them.

 

[bainp]

Then don't make contact with the shell holder...! Just because a car goes 120 mph does not mean you have to drive it that fast..

I have 3 different reloading presses. If you don't make contact with the shellholder then you get varying amounts of sizing of the case in length to shoulder (varying headspace on the case). Happens with all 3 presses. When you make contact with the shellholder, headspace of the case suddenly becomes very consistent. Only press I know of that will allow this consistency without contacting the shellholder is the Forster coax. One of them is on my must buy list when I am allowed. Both my Redding body dies size 0.010" shorter than a go gauge, so I have to use the +10 Redding Comp shellholder to get my cases sized to go gauge length. I insist my gunsmith headspaces barrels to 0 (go gauge length) not somewhere between go and no go gauge length. I do anneal after each firing.

 

[fatelvis]

Its a real shame they felt the need to change them.

How exactly did they change them?

 

[Mark W]

How exactly did they change them?

They don’t size the whole neck anymore. The new ones leave an unsized area which creates a sort of bell mouth on cases. There have been a couple of threads with pics since the change. I haven’t used one myself, but I don’t think the change has been very well received. I have a few of the older ones and I can’t imagine that this change would be an improvement.

 

[rayporter]

if you like cam over, buy 6 different brands of shell holders.
there is an amazing difference in how much each brand will size a case. buy 2 of one brand and grind a couple thou off in case you need to use it some day.

 

[D-4297]

Am I missing something here??? I use a Redding body die to resize my brass, including shoulder bump and wouldn't ever consider pushing the brass into another sizing die?????
I only neck size after the body die.
It certainly works to resize the brass to, as you put it, "length and chamber sizing". Just trying to clarify in case a newbe gets the wrong end of the handle.

This makes no sense.... "Body Dies are made for Diameter reduction . Not length or chamber sizing ."

My comment ; and conclusions were based on my own experience with a Redding Body Die , part #75155 , and the shell holder set . Die did nothing for shoulder-bump , but did make the case .006-.008 longer , and took all diameters .001-.002 smaller . In going through the entire process of trying to make it work , I trashed 25 cases . Then I got smart and put it in the cabinet , and had Whidden make me a F/L Bushing die . End of that story . When I called Redding and ask what the body Die was designed to do , I was told it was to primarily reduce all case diameters to SAAMI specs due to chambers that had been expanded diametrically from wear , or over-pressured loads . And just so some "Newbie' doesn't get the wrong idea , You still use a Collet Neck Die ? Didn't think anyone did that anymore .

 

[47WillysGuy]

Redding body dies size fired cases both ways, but I have to use a shim between the shell holder and die to maintain a consistent sizing. I check the headspace of the sized case to chamber without the firing pin in the bolt. I want the bolt to freely fall. I use the adage, "Like a rat turd in a violin case. " I want to eliminate any binding of the case to the chamber which could cause a misalignment of the load to bore. and there's going to some anyway. My $0.02. It works for me. I sent an email to Redding asking what their body dies do to a fired case and Jocko sent the following reply:

A body die does everything a full length sizer die does except the neck.
The body die does not touch the neck in any way. Hope this helps.

Jocko LaClair
Customer Service Technician
Redding Reloading Equipment
1089 Starr Road
Cortland, NY 13045
(607) 753-3331