Red oil version for walnut stocks -- Similar to Holland & Holland

[mauser284]

Original recipe:

4oz of Alkenet Root in a large glass canning Jar with full amount of boiled Linseed Oil. Set aside and let rest for 6 weeks in a cool dry place.

Jacks version of red oil. 4oz of Alekenet Root in large Masson or Ball Jar. Enough Mineral Spirit to totaly wet and slightly cover the powder. Fill the remander of the jar with Tongue Oil. Shake and set aside for a week or two.

Strain the mixture through a kitchen strainer nothing fancy. Ready for use. This produces the deep red brown color on Walnut you are used to seeing on Winchester and Holland & Holland type rifles.

Holland & Holland claim to put 64 coats on the wood of their rifles.

I prefer to sand with either degreased SS steel wool or 400 grit sand paper between each coat. I do not remove the ust using sanding dust as a pore filler.

Once colour is achieved and fill switch to 100% pure Tongue oil. Each step from now on after sanding wipe off any dust and coat with 100% tongue oil getting up to about 1000 grit. Now is the time to get any checkering done. After checkering switch over to a nice wax and buff to high sheen.

It is easy to get a choclate sheen from a lot of walnuts but getting that classic WInchester or Holland and Holland redish brown color is almost impossible naturally it almost always requires Red Oil to get their.

You can get alkenet Root on Amazon for like $12 for 10oz.

I think Holland & Halloand use Linseed for all of the Red Oil coats then use Tongue oil for the finish coats. I am not a fan of Linseed oil because of it's spontanious combustion hazard with rags which is why I just got for Tongue oil the entire way.

I am sure it could be used with things like Teak Oil and Danish Oil or Wiping Lacquer but I have no experince with them and this method. Some trial and error would be in order.

Good Luck and God Bless!

 

[mauser284]

Sorry for typos. I have a lot of wine in me right now. Bad insomnia and pain night! Sorry guys!

 

[butchlambert]

Original recipe:

4oz of Alkenet Root in a large glass canning Jar with full amount of boiled Linseed Oil. Set aside and let rest for 6 weeks in a cool dry place.

Jacks version of red oil. 4oz of Alekenet Root in large Masson or Ball Jar. Enough Mineral Spirit to totaly wet and slightly cover the powder. Fill the remander of the jar with Tongue Oil. Shake and set aside for a week or two.

Strain the mixture through a kitchen strainer nothing fancy. Ready for use. This produces the deep red brown color on Walnut you are used to seeing on Winchester and Holland & Holland type rifles.

Holland & Holland claim to put 64 coats on the wood of their rifles.

I prefer to sand with either degreased SS steel wool or 400 grit sand paper between each coat. I do not remove the ust using sanding dust as a pore filler.

Once colour is achieved and fill switch to 100% pure Tongue oil. Each step from now on after sanding wipe off any dust and coat with 100% tongue oil getting up to about 1000 grit. Now is the time to get any checkering done. After checkering switch over to a nice wax and buff to high sheen.

It is easy to get a choclate sheen from a lot of walnuts but getting that classic WInchester or Holland and Holland redish brown color is almost impossible naturally it almost always requires Red Oil to get their.

You can get alkenet Root on Amazon for like $12 for 10oz.

I think Holland & Halloand use Linseed for all of the Red Oil coats then use Tongue oil for the finish coats. I am not a fan of Linseed oil because of it's spontanious combustion hazard with rags which is why I just got for Tongue oil the entire way.

I am sure it could be used with things like Teak Oil and Danish Oil or Wiping Lacquer but I have no experince with them and this method. Some trial and error would be in order.

Good Luck and God Bless!

I am a fan of Alkanet root!

 

[ebb]

Thanks for the info! I need to copy this and fold it up and store in Roy Dunlop's book. His book is my go to for the old ways of smithing.

 

[joshb]

Yup! Thanks for that! I just ordered some . I still have a couple stocks in me. I’ll try it on one.

 

[ebb]

Mark Novak does most of his with a red dyed stain, and I've watched several episodes where he talks about it but I've never got the exact formula he uses. I don't know if it's my bad hearing or he is doing a humble brag and keeping it a secret.

 

[joshb]

Mark Novak does most of his with a red dyed stain, and I've watched several episodes where he talks about it but I've never got the exact formula he uses. I don't know if it's my bad hearing or he is doing a humble brag and keeping it a secret.

Over the years of my building career in old houses, trying to match the hues of an old shellac finish on new wood was the devil to achieve! Diluted Red Mahogany stain was the closest we got. This might do it.

 

[COLT45SA]

Worked well for me on my early 1885. I used BLO all the way going from 50/50 BLO and min spirits followed by each successive coat less diluted than the prior. Stocks now look 1000% better than the metal~!

 

[ISS]

IIRC, Winchester (pre-64) used Rote Wax from Germany on the Super Grades.

 

[mauser284]

I needed to make some up so I had to find some powdered Alkenet Root and Amazon has the best price.

I figured you never know what the youth of today knows or does not know about the past. So I figured it deserved a post just in case.

I make a lot of my own chemicals and products from scratch. I am just old enough in my early 50's to have one foot in the past and one in the future!

 

[mauser284]

I have no clue if Winchester ever used this combo. I was citeing the redish brown color that you would see on London based custom gun makers and also some Winchester stocks.

The Recipe is directly from Holland & Holland of London. I am guessing that it would be a common recipe though for Europe.

The more coats of "Red Oil" you put on the darker red it becomes. So the number of coats of "Red" would depend on the starting color of the Walnut you are finishinging, so that part would be done by eye and adjusted for consistent appearance.

That said I have refinished Winchesters for people that desperately needed it. Obviously it looked better than anything Winchester ever made 1950 on ward including my M70 SuperGrade which was made in 1998 and is wearing it's stock finish after 3 trips to Africa.

I will say this about Winchester and Marlin there are some years the stocks are more red/brown and some that are more orange/brown. I have never even bothered to attempt to get that orange/brown appearance.

My SuperGrade just needs me to clean it, polish it a bit, and apply some fresh oil. The finish is still in tack just dulled from dust and sweat.

 

[mauser284]

I have used a lot of stains. My main stains for mixing where from local Sherwin Williams store. I think the 3 I kept on hand and used the most and mixed where Cordavan, Mansion/Mission Oak/ and Mahogeny. My Mom restored and repurposed a lot of furniture and with those 3 listed above I could often produce any color I wanted. That said I never mixed those in with oil. I always applied those and let them dry completly before attempting an oil finish. Often when I used those it was wipe on poly, minwax, or French Polish etc.....

I have had good luck with TransTint as well but that was a bit tricky. Red Oil is almost idiot proof so long as you have time for lots of coats and long drying times. What it lacks in color pallet it makes up for with a beautiful and consistent result that is easy to fix. Kind of like the old days when a custom show car might have 10 to 30 coats of lacquer paint. Sanded between each coat.

Rote Wax would mean "redness wax" with rot being the root word for the color red. It would have been a longer word combo probably something like "redness bee's wax for sealing rifle stocks" and would have been one long compound word in Germany. I practicaly grew up in Germany 1976 to 1991. Never ran into this wax though. I was there 2 to 4 years at a time then back tot he USA 2-3 years and back to Geramany rinse and repeat! I did not start doing a lot of wood work though on stocks until I was int he States for good. In Europe I mostly worked with metal an apprenticed to be an Automotive Technician.

Can this wax still be found? It would be intersting to play around with!