Reading Wind

[prwhite]

In my experience, early morning conditions with the wind calm (flag tails just starting to move) with no definite direction indicated, you will be all over the ten ring ( F-class) and maybe some nines. May look good but has surprises.

 

[Ballisticboy]

Spin drift and wind drift are two separate and independent phenomena. Spin drift is due to the gyroscopic reaction of the bullet to the curving of the trajectory towards the ground. Wind has no direct effect on the spin drift. Wind drift is due to the bullet pointing into the combined airflow over it, produced by the combination of the wind and the bullet forward speed, which causes a component of the bullet drag force to act in the down wind direction. Both spin drift and down wind drift give a curved variation in drift with range, neither of them is linear.

The down wind drift to the left or the right will be the same for the same wind speed from either left or right. However, when viewed through the rifle sights it may appear that a bullet will drift further in one direction than the other. This is due to the sight line being a straight line relative to range compared to the spin drift which is a curve relative to the range. The combination of the two can give the impression that the bullet will drift more in one direction than the other even when the wind speed is the same from either direction.

The above comments relate to down wind drift and do not include the vertical effects of a crosswind which again is a gyroscopic effect.

 

[Greyfox]

Much depends on the level of accuracy/precision you require. If you want to be competitive in short range benchrest, wind flags are required. period.
Wind charts will give you an idea and maybe get you under MOA, but you simply can't do it without flags. Of course, having a rifle capable of 1/4 or less MOA is a given. In fact, to achieve proficiency in wind reading and accurate rifle is an absolute necessity. I can't really comment on 600-1000 wind reading as I have no experience, but based on what I've read you still watch the indicators, grass, tress etc, And a no wind situation is difficult to shoot. There are still things going on with thermals, changes in light due to shifting cloud cover etc. Personally, I prefer a constant 3-5 mph wind that doesn't vary. Of course, this never happens.

Rick

 

[D Coots]

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Garandman, you need to invest in some books, and read them cover-to-cover twice.


"The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters"

"Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting"

Maybe McCoy's "Modern Exterior Ballistics"

...and for interest, Edward Crossman's "Small-bore Rifle Shooting"


Books are a helluva lot shorter and cheaper way to learn why right twist barrels have a different impact than left twist, etc. etc.... than spending the rest of your life and all your money "reinventing" what may have been known 100 years ago.

My way of thinking: if these giants who preceded us felt it worth their short time left in life to spend some of it to write down what they knew, so's to pass it along, then maybe little ol' me could take the time to listen.

-Nate[/QUOTE

A book may point you in the right direction, but time at the range will be the best teacher. there are no short cuts in BR shooting.

Lee

 

[Shooter13]

I have never seen "no wind" jmho

 

[rjtfroggy]

I have never seen "no wind" jmho

I have seen it twice, both times the streamers were hanging dead down with out even a twitch. First time was during a match and lasted for maybe ten minutes, sounded like a machine gun match with everyone trying to run the condition. Second time was a day of practice lasted most of the session, sure is disheartening when you are off the ten ring and can't blame the wind.

 

[natdscott]

A book may point you in the right direction, but time at the range will be the best teacher. there are no short cuts in BR shooting.

Lee

Lee, if you are insinuating that I did, I assure you that in no place, explicitly or implicitly, did I claim that there were any "short cuts" to looking at a range and just "knowing" what to put on the gun, or where to hold off, and when. The best wind readers I've ever been around, and that's been some very good ones, have developed not so much a thought process as it is an instinct that they can hedge on/off for various rifles and cartridges and ranges. It's a truly amazing thing to watch.

Read a later post of mine and you'll find that I am well aware of the current limitations of mine with regards to range time. For now, I'm 'not there', and don't ever claim to be, even if I can see how "perfect" wind calling could be achieved.

But I'm a helluva lot further into a wall of fake walnut and gold than I would'a been without listening to other shooter's lifetimes of experience.

The type of shooter that has no use for "book learnin' " can live a really challenging life. Lots more than he or she has to.

If you READ the list of books I cited, you may notice that there is a HELLuva lot more knowledge in those four then just about windage.

I looked at my bookshelf and selected THOSE for a reason: I want to HELP young "garandman" learn a great deal more than he currently knows, about a whole bunch of things he'd probably find interesting and useful.



Conceptually: Do you figger Tony Boyer wrote his book just for nothing? Did he really needed the money?


Think about that.

-Nate

 

[garandman]

"Young" garandman?

Who is that?

 

[garandman]

I have never seen "no wind" jmho

You've *never* seen a 20 second span without wind? Even at 50 yards?

Really ?

 

[natdscott]

Shooting under halogens at night has helped me before. I understand that is not a luxury all shooters have, but it can be a good learning experience. No mirage, and less-to-no wind provides a helluva lot fewer excuses, so shooter, rifle, and ammo can be very closely evaluated.

 

[garandman]

Shooting under halogens at night has helped me before. I understand that is not a luxury all shooters have, but it can be a good learning experience. No mirage, and less-to-no wind provides a helluva lot fewer excuses, so shooter, rifle, and ammo can be very closely evaluated.

That ^ ^ ^ is precisely my circumstance. Night matches under the lights. This same range (Eastern KY) has pretty much zero wind from 6:30 - 8 a.m. That said.... this same range at night often has wicked swirling almost gyroscopic type winds at night. Gives a pretty good test of the skillset.

Now... I'm sure someone will will come along and tell me there really *is* wind all the time ...I just can't see it. SMH

Look, friends - if my flag ain't moving, and its tail is hanging dead limp straight down.... that's NO WIND. Please stop intentionally missing the point just to argue. Give peace a chance.

 

[BartsBullets]

A friend and I put 6 coffee cans with diesel out at 100 yards and set them on fire. 3 on each side of the range. Wind was imperceptible on the flags and flag tails. You couldn’t feel it on your body either. Conditions as best we could tell were dead calm.

We shot with the smoke going straight up and then when the smoke would have a slight bend. Still nothing showing on the flags. The impact of the bullet would move a bullet to a bullet and a half. Pretty big eye opener for us.

That’s why I prefer to see a little condition on the flags then a dead calm.

Bart

 

[jobhopper66]

^^^^Not sure that you can get better advice than that. One of the best just shared his experience.

 

[garandman]

I shot my first perfect card ... IBS Rimfire... 250 / 250, with 14x in this "dead calm / no wind" condition, last Monday nite. Went 1-1 in the two card match. Other card was a 249/250 with 15x.

Works for me.

And yes... during both 20 minute matches, the wind spiked up a bit numerous times with a 5 o'clock 3-5 mph blow. And then dropped back to zero.

This is my real world experience.

 

[Joe Salt]

Bart that is an Idea my buddy Eddie and I have been thinking about, with smoke. If you look up Smudge pots, they even have them with colored smoke. Sure beats the crap out of flags.

Joe Salt

 

[garandman]

"Smoke" ... interesting idea. Would prefer something non-toxic. The enviro-nazis are annoying, but I like to keep the green places green, too.

 

[Rope2horns]

From my Fclass perspective..

1. I've been there/seen the 600yrd record tied or broke 6 times in Fopen (and a couple times in FTR), 5 of those 6 times conditions were "ideal"..the one exception being the most recent, Jim Fowlers record, 6-8mph fishtailing tail wind. I never would have guessed that a record would have been shot that day/relay. I seen the the 1000yrd record tied or broke a few times as well. And again the conditions were "ideal".

2.Some ranges follow your shot chart more closely than others. As been mentioned before, terrain features, thermals, lighting and a plethora of other variables that we may or may not be able to see plays into bullet impact. ..Ben Avery (imo) is one of those ranges, wind speed and direction have huge effect on the impact elevation of your bullet.

3.Spin drift is easily accounted for with a good 100yrd "no wind" zero a ballistics calculator and a windage knob. Some guys may leave the spin drift in, I don't, it's the first thing I dial out. My pea brain has a hard time keeping up with wind changes and holds without adding another 1/2-3/4moa into the equation.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee, if you are insinuating that I did, I assure you that in no place, explicitly or implicitly, did I claim that there were any "short cuts" to looking at a range and just "knowing" what to put on the gun, or where to hold off, and when. The best wind readers I've ever been around, and that's been some very good ones, have developed not so much a thought process as it is an instinct that they can hedge on/off for various rifles and cartridges and ranges. It's a truly amazing thing to watch.

Read a later post of mine and you'll find that I am well aware of the current limitations of mine with regards to range time. For now, I'm 'not there', and don't ever claim to be, even if I can see how "perfect" wind calling could be achieved.

But I'm a helluva lot further into a wall of fake walnut and gold than I would'a been without listening to other shooter's lifetimes of experience.

The type of shooter that has no use for "book learnin' " can live a really challenging life. Lots more than he or she has to.

If you READ the list of books I cited, you may notice that there is a HELLuva lot more knowledge in those four then just about windage.

I looked at my bookshelf and selected THOSE for a reason: I want to HELP young "garandman" learn a great deal more than he currently knows, about a whole bunch of things he'd probably find interesting and useful.



Conceptually: Do you figger Tony Boyer wrote his book just for nothing? Did he really needed the money?


Think about that.

-Nate

Think about this , What book do you think Tony Boyer read to get

Lee

Lee, if you are insinuating that I did, I assure you that in no place, explicitly or implicitly, did I claim that there were any "short cuts" to looking at a range and just "knowing" what to put on the gun, or where to hold off, and when. The best wind readers I've ever been around, and that's been some very good ones, have developed not so much a thought process as it is an instinct that they can hedge on/off for various rifles and cartridges and ranges. It's a truly amazing thing to watch.

Read a later post of mine and you'll find that I am well aware of the current limitations of mine with regards to range time. For now, I'm 'not there', and don't ever claim to be, even if I can see how "perfect" wind calling could be achieved.

But I'm a helluva lot further into a wall of fake walnut and gold than I would'a been without listening to other shooter's lifetimes of experience.

The type of shooter that has no use for "book learnin' " can live a really challenging life. Lots more than he or she has to.

If you READ the list of books I cited, you may notice that there is a HELLuva lot more knowledge in those four then just about windage.

I looked at my bookshelf and selected THOSE for a reason: I want to HELP young "garandman" learn a great deal more than he currently knows, about a whole bunch of things he'd probably find interesting and useful.



Conceptually: Do you figger Tony Boyer wrote his book just for nothing? Did he really needed the money?


Think about that.

-Nate

 

[BartsBullets]

Think about this , What book do you think Tony Boyer read to get

Lee

I’d say None!

Bart