Question on JB bore paste

[montana_native]

I recently started working with a 243 Win my dad gave me as my first deer gun 20 years ago. It's a Winchester model 670 which was the cheap version of the model 70 from what I understand. I figured the first place to start was a good barrel cleaning since my dad was from the "old-school" and didn't clean barrels much.

I hit it with Wipeout overnight and the next day there was a puddle of blue KoolAid at the end of the barrel. I did this for three days until there was no more copper fouling evidence. However, the patches were still fairly black. I then used Slip 2000 Carbon Killer. This seemed to have a fair effect on cutting the carbon but the patches still came out gray with no signs of it improving.

I then switched to JB Bore paste. The patches have been coming out jet black and I've scrubbed it about 20 times with the stuff cleaning the residue out of the barrel with brake clean between paste applications.

I can't fathom the barrel is this fouled and was wondering if the borepaste is somehow reacting with the metal producing the black??? Is it possible the barrel is this fouled up?

Thanks.

 

[NateHaler]

JB is a mild abrasive. You're seeing the results of that. Excess "cleaning" can cause more problems than it solves.

 

[RJinTexas]

It's been my experience that JB's always turns the patch black after a few passes in every barrel I've used it in, it's a mild abrasive. Just run a few passes down one of your other already clean barrels and you'll see for yourself. I always just removed the paste with any regular bore cleaner such as Butch's Bore Shine. For years I've advised my friend to vigorously polish their factory barrels on their hunting rifles with Jb's prior to the barrel brake in. I think this helps to shorten the brake in process of those ruff factory barrel and seemed to help. I've also used Fritz's Metal Polish for the same purpose on FACTORY BARRELS with good results. I'm not advocating that you go out and use either in your expensive hand lapped benchrest barrels.

Regards
RJ

 

[montana_native]

JB is a mild abrasive. You're seeing the results of that. Excess "cleaning" can cause more problems than it solves.

Oh crap. It should be lapped reaaalllly good then. I guess I will see if I screwed it up this weekend.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[tazzman]

Montana,

Do you know anyone that can get a hold of a borescope. One look, and you would know how clean your barrel really is.

Cheers,

Phil aka tazzman

 

[gme]

I know of at least one barrel maker who will void your warranty if JB is used on his barrels, excessive polishing of a match barrel can increase copper fouling
Gary Eliseo

 

[RJinTexas]

I actually doubt if you could have hurt a factory barrel with JB's. I've used it for years on barrels that seem to lightly foul and clean up slowly. I find it to be great help on abused varmint rifle barrels that may get 100 rounds run through them in a days shooting before getting cleaned. At the end of a days p-dog shooting and there's several guns to clean I find that JB's greatly speeds up the cleaning process. Used it for years with no ill effects.

Regards
RJ

 

[HPMike800]

Both Isso and JB allways come out black. I think you would have to run a few jars through it to effect the barrel. The abrassive should open pores in the carbon that allow a liquid penetrate better. So after a JB session you can patch out the paste and read the patches with liquid cleaner on them.

 

[fdshuster]

JB bore paste, original blue label, is one of the most effective methods I've found to remove carbon fouling, and I do not hesitate to use it, as necessary, with a good fitting bronze brush: it does the job everytime, as verified with my Hawkeye borescope.

 

[spclark]

JB's decent stuff in and of itself (barring the warranty issue Gary mentioned) but unless your goal is to compete with this heirloom I'd suggest you haven't hurt that barrel any by using JB.

Have you shot it yet?

ANY abrasive will remove microscopic quantities of metal - if that's all that remains in the bore after using other cleaning methods - and that metal likely will appear black on a patch.

The reply that suggested locating somebody with a borescope is good advice - that's the only way to really get an idea of the condition of the bore in your barrel. Knowing what to make of what you see in the 'scope eyepiece though is something that only comes with experience.

If you know a trustworthy gunsmith, it might be worth the $20 or $30 it's cost you to have him give you his opinion.

 

[oneflyer]

I know of at least one barrel maker who will void your warranty if JB is used on his barrels, excessive polishing of a match barrel can increase copper fouling
Gary Eliseo

I'd like to know which barrel maker will void the warranty with the use of JB.

 

[fdshuster]

Not Krieger! They encourage the use of abrasive cleaners, and in fact, specifically state that they will not damage the barrel. Check out the thread on barrel cleaning on this sites "barrels" page. Good enough for me.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I know of at least one barrel maker who will void your warranty if JB is used on his barrels, excessive polishing of a match barrel can increase copper fouling
Gary Eliseo

I'd like to know which barrel maker will void the warranty with the use of JB.

It is Broughton Rifle Barrels that will void the guarantee if abrasives are used in their barrels! Look at the Ordering Info portion of their site and in the guarantee section it states this plainly!

Mike

 

[tenring]

Tony Boyer is without dispute the best ever BR shooter in history. I have read on other sites that he uses JB regularly. Of course, his barrels are tomato stakes after 600 rounds anyhow.

 

[jonbearman]

I have used jb in several barrels that are badly fouled after a hard day. I usually use about 3 patches and gently scrub the bore so to spaek and then use butches or any good solvent followed by brake clean. Then I oil the bore lightly with marvel mystery oil which other gunsmiths repackage as there super duper cutom oil. Anyways my remington vs in .223 22-250 and .308 all shoot phenominal after using JB. I also concour that it helps rough factory bore's as well I doubt you did any damage,after patching 20 time's you probably only removed a millionth of the actual bore diameter.

 

[montana_native]

FWIW,

I took it out today and the first loads I tried shot a 0.362" group at 100 yds. Looks like it's good to go.

Thanks for all of the advice.

 

[wapiti25]

I would like to say moderation and care in all cleaning should be observed. A good one piece rod should be used, I've used both steel and plastic coated and can see pro's and con's of both. I have salvaged three or more barrels of others that had ruined the crown by cleaning. The use of a bore guide is required or the throat can damaged by cleaning. I own one barrel that has the chamber cut off center from the factory that will shoot some bullets very good, I did a chamber cast and could not believe how far the throat was off on one side compaired to the other. I use J B in std factory barrels but not in top grade match barrels. Looks like you did well on the cleaning.

 

[ourway77]

I sold a JC Higgins 222 to a gunsmith with a 3 day inspection, he called me and said the barrel is pitted so he returned it to me. Under the naked eye it look good and shot VG for as old as it is . It has a Sako L-46 action which i feel is worth rebarrling. But i decided to use JB's about 200 strokes, I figured what have I too loose. At the range it shot 3/4"with some loads I just thru together dropped not weighed. The JB's seemed to help it didn't hurt anything. So I will just shoot it. Because trying to sell it I would have to be truthful as to what I have learned about the barrel from the gunsmith Lou

 

[wapiti25]

That Sako action is cuter than a bug's ear. I've always liked Sako actions. You could rebarrel it if it won't shoot to your satisfaction, nothing wrong with the 222 or any small case head like 223, 204.

 

[wapiti25]

If you wnat to go ahead and sell the gun I know several people that may be interested including myself depending on price.