PSA new steel case ammo plant

[markT]

Saw where PSA is building a new steel case ammo plant. Possibly in SC. Machines are being supplied by Eastern Europe company. This is due to the ban that “Let’s Go” put into effect on Russian ammo. See, he is creating jobs.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Saw where PSA is building a new steel case ammo plant. Possibly in SC. Machines are being supplied by Eastern Europe company. This is due to the ban that “Let’s Go” put into effect on Russian ammo. See, he is creating jobs.

Now that makes sense...

That and someone needs to file a anti trust lawsuit against Vista Outdoors for having a near monoploy on primers. 40 years ago there is no WAY that the government would have allowed that...

 

[Stumpy1]

So, we are in the midst of an extreme shortage of components of every kind, and ammo of nearly every stripe.

Vista stepped up and bought the plants which weren't making it due to mismanagement and other bad practices, added staff, improved output, and things are getting a little bit better -slowly, but better nonetheless. My recollection is that there weren't an extensive number of parties interested in buying, for example, Remington.

We make nearly NO smokeless powder in this country, many other consumer 'things' in general come from overseas already.

How exactly would an anti-trust lawsuit help this situation? I really want to know.

In my opinion, putting up MORE roadblocks to production in the form of diverting company resources to fighting lawsuits would make the situation much, MUCH worse, and discourage anyone from ever buying up failing companies (of any stripe) in the future.

I really agree with you in that I am assuming you believe we should have many producers of 'things', especially potential wartime materiel, within the borders of our country, but that horse has long ago left the barn.

Respectfully submitted,

Frank

 

[skeeljc]

I just listened to the CEO of Vista Outdoors on Squawk on the Street. He was not very encouraging on fixing the shortage problem. He ststed that the number of shooters has increased dramatically. He said their plants were working overtime. He admitted they cannot make enough to meet the demand. There was no mention as to what it will take to solve the problem. No discussion on building new capacity.

My take away is they are really happy supplying what they can and continuing to increase prices. This will result in more hoarding, increased shortages and higher prices.

You can buy Vista stock and make money but you cannot spend it on shooting.

 

[urbanrifleman]

How exactly would an anti-trust lawsuit help this situation? I really want to know.

Frankly, Frank... I am left shaking my head.

The embracing of monopolies in this countries is just... shocking. The beef industry, lumber, all of retail, media (I mean seriously people think Fox News is an "alternative"), etc etc the oil industry is a CARTEL of a few massive players that move the prices any time they want.

Monopolies are good... that is the take away. More efficient. Amazon is your friend... let them run everyone else out of business. It is survival of the fittest right? The biggest billionaire wins!! What are you a SOCIALIST????

Shut down the local businesses but keep Lowes and Home Depot open as "essential".

Man... people better pull their heads out of their you know whats... but I suspect that, like the rich folks on the Titanic, they will be arguing about the dinner menu about the time the water covers them up.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I just listened to the CEO of Vista Outdoors on Squawk on the Street. He was not very encouraging on fixing the shortage problem. He ststed that the number of shooters has increased dramatically. He said their plants were working overtime. He admitted they cannot make enough to meet the demand. There was no mention as to what it will take to solve the problem. No discussion on building new capacity.

My take away is they are really happy supplying what they can and continuing to increase prices. This will result in more hoarding, increased shortages and higher prices.

You can buy Vista stock and make money but you cannot spend it on shooting.

Correctly assessed.

Why would they do anything to "fix" this? They have a virtual sole source to the entire country.

This is GREAT for their business... I mean... how is this not OBVIOUS to people???

 

[mike mccormick]

Frankly, Frank... I am left shaking my head.

The embracing of monopolies in this countries is just... shocking. The beef industry, lumber, all of retail, media (I mean seriously people think Fox News is an "alternative"), etc etc the oil industry is a CARTEL of a few massive players that move the prices any time they want.

Monopolies are good... that is the take away. More efficient. Amazon is your friend... let them run everyone else out of business. It is survival of the fittest right? The biggest billionaire wins!! What are you a SOCIALIST????

Shut down the local businesses but keep Lowes and Home Depot open as "essential".

Man... people better pull their heads out of their you know whats... but I suspect that, like the rich folks on the Titanic, they will be arguing about the dinner menu about the time the water covers them up.

No one is saying monopolies are good. Just that litigation is not the answer. Everyone is sue happy. It is stupidity to attack an industry that you should be supporting. Those costs get passed on to the consumer, and only make matters worse. Try a more constructive approach. Hell, round up the financial backing and start your own primer plant.

 

[mdram]

one thing i took away from what i read was that when asked where they would get primers, psa said something like people will be pleasantly surprised. i interpret that as they may be doing primers also

 

[urbanrifleman]

No one is saying monopolies are good. Just that litigation is not the answer. Everyone is sue happy. It is stupidity to attack an industry that you should be supporting. Those costs get passed on to the consumer, and only make matters worse. Try a more constructive approach. Hell, round up the financial backing and start your own primer plant.

They should have never been allowed to buy Remington in the first place. And someone must have greased the purchase to get it allowed.

As far as "just start your own multi million dollar, highly regulated, historically monolpolized operation if you don't like it", I hope you realize how unbelievably hyperbolic that really is...

 

[urbanrifleman]

Vista has doubled its stock price in one year.

Now why would they want to "fix" this again?

 

[garandman]

If there really are all these new shooters / gun owners, that bodes well (possibly) for the Second AMendment.

*** IF *** we can actually get ammo.

I'm QUITE sure the anti-gun / anti 2A forces in this country aren't taking this lying down. Knowing how underhanded and corrupt they are, I put absoltely nothing out of the realm of pssobility for them.

 

[Stumpy1]

As far as "just start your own multi million dollar, highly regulated, historically monolpolized operation if you don't like it", I hope you realize how unbelievably hyperbolic that really is...

I know absolutely that we are in agreement with regard to monopolies -no question.

BUT -you answered your own question above -who in their right mind would go into a primer, or powder, or ammunition, or firearm operation given the current climate, both political and otherwise? Especially going into it with no prior experience in the business. NOBODY.

We are lucky, in a way, and should be grateful, in a way, that Vista was able to pick up the real estate and manufacturing equipment and start turning out components quickly. If they hadn't done that, we would really be up Schmidt's crick without the proverbial paddle.

I truly understand the frustration of not being able to walk into a local store and pick up whatever you want, but look around -that extends to food items, toasters, washing machines, cars, trucks, soda, you name it. Lots of empty shelves at the stores I frequent.

Some are aware that European regulations have made it impossible to import many Hodgdon powders into the European 'theater of operations', right? So what will that mean for Hodgdon going forward? Will they give up the production of "H" powders altogether? What will that do to your (and my) shooting? What if those regulations extend someday to producing only 'green primers'? What then?

As to adding equipment to produce more primers, ammo, bullets. I have seen many of these "Boom" cycles followed, as night follows day, by even bigger "Bust" cycles. Would you invest more and more money trying to me what is likely a temporary (if highly inconvenient, and profitable) demand?

Converting the new shooters from temporary to permanent shooters should be our goal -once we have 'sustained' demand for ammo/components, and not surge demand, I hope we will see a boom in on-shore manufacturing of those items -if the boom becomes sustainable demand, that will equate to increased political pressure to leave these companies the heck alone, and with that, others will begin to explore the possibility of starting new manufacturing plants.

Another thing holding back, for example, primer production is that they are made by HAND, by experienced people who are willing to come to work every day, working with what is by definition a HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE compound. That isn't a job for everybody, and takes a good bit of training and dedication to doing it right, safely, and efficiently.

Look, I get it, it is hard (and expensive) to continue to acquire enough components to shoot as much as we want. But it isn't impossible, it just requires some diligence, and maybe some compromise, and maybe sharing with fellow shooters who didn't or couldn't prepare as well as some of us. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater -Vista is doing the job as well as they can under difficult circumstances.

Let's not devour our own.

Respectfully submitted,

Frank

 

[Stumpy1]

View attachment 1290746


Vista has doubled its stock price in one year.

Now why would they want to "fix" this again?

And their price is STILL less than it was in 2016 ($52.30 on March 14, 2016)...

 

[urbanrifleman]

I know absolutely that we are in agreement with regard to monopolies -no question.

BUT -you answered your own question above -who in their right mind would go into a primer, or powder, or ammunition, or firearm operation given the current climate, both political and otherwise? Especially going into it with no prior experience in the business. NOBODY.

We are lucky, in a way, and should be grateful, in a way, that Vista was able to pick up the real estate and manufacturing equipment and start turning out components quickly. If they hadn't done that, we would really be up Schmidt's crick without the proverbial paddle.

I truly understand the frustration of not being able to walk into a local store and pick up whatever you want, but look around -that extends to food items, toasters, washing machines, cars, trucks, soda, you name it. Lots of empty shelves at the stores I frequent.

Some are aware that European regulations have made it impossible to import many Hodgdon powders into the European 'theater of operations', right? So what will that mean for Hodgdon going forward? Will they give up the production of "H" powders altogether? What will that do to your (and my) shooting? What if those regulations extend someday to producing only 'green primers'? What then?

As to adding equipment to produce more primers, ammo, bullets. I have seen many of these "Boom" cycles followed, as night follows day, by even bigger "Bust" cycles. Would you invest more and more money trying to me what is likely a temporary (if highly inconvenient, and profitable) demand?

Converting the new shooters from temporary to permanent shooters should be our goal -once we have 'sustained' demand for ammo/components, and not surge demand, I hope we will see a boom in on-shore manufacturing of those items -if the boom becomes sustainable demand, that will equate to increased political pressure to leave these companies the heck alone, and with that, others will begin to explore the possibility of starting new manufacturing plants.

Another thing holding back, for example, primer production is that they are made by HAND, by experienced people who are willing to come to work every day, working with what is by definition a HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE compound. That isn't a job for everybody, and takes a good bit of training and dedication to doing it right, safely, and efficiently.

Look, I get it, it is hard (and expensive) to continue to acquire enough components to shoot as much as we want. But it isn't impossible, it just requires some diligence, and maybe some compromise, and maybe sharing with fellow shooters who didn't or couldn't prepare as well as some of us. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater -Vista is doing the job as well as they can under difficult circumstances.

Let's not devour our own.

Respectfully submitted,

Frank

Respectfully...

Vista is a company. A soulless corporation that was established to make money. Not our buddy. Not here to keep us happy. It is there to make money. And they are...

As to the idea that nobody wanted Remington or could manage Remington *except* Vista. I wholly disagree. They won the bidding. They certainly were not the ONLY one bidding. And I wonder why they were willing to pay more than anyone else?

I agree the best thing is more competition. But the very idea that limiting that competition to some kind of "approved" sources is good for anything, I sincerely disagree. Not in this case, at least. Too much consolidation.

That is why beef brisket is 6 bucks a pound man!!! The industry was completely consolidated into the hands of a few players and no one said a word....

 

[urbanrifleman]

And their price is STILL less than it was in 2016 ($52.30 on March 14, 2016)...

So?

 

[AckleymanII]

If the Supreme Court rules that New Yorkers can carry guns outside their homes, this will add more pressure on the ammo industry....only in a good way!

 

[urbanrifleman]

"Consolidation of meatpacking started in the mid-1970s, with buyouts of smaller companies, mergers and a shift to much larger plants. Census data cited by the USDA shows that the number of livestock slaughter plants declined from 2,590 in 1977 to 1,387 in 1992. And big processors gradually dominated, going from handling only 12% of cattle in 1977 to 65% by 1997.

Currently four companies — Cargill, JBS, Tyson Foods and National Beef Packing — control over 80% of the U.S. beef market thanks to cattle slaughtered at 24 plants."

Why Brisket cost 6 bucks a pound and cows sell for less than they did 20 years ago...

Consolidation is NOT GOOD.

 

[mike mccormick]

They should have never been allowed to buy Remington in the first place. And someone must have greased the purchase to get it allowed.

As far as "just start your own multi million dollar, highly regulated, historically monolpolized operation if you don't like it", I hope you realize how unbelievably hyperbolic that really is...

I do. I am just tired of everyone's answer to every situation being to sue someone. The one's that pay the price are always the consumer.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I do. I am just tired of everyone's answer to every situation being to sue someone. The one's that pay the price are always the consumer.

Anti trust is not "suing". It is actually a government regulatory function that is truly in the best interest of the population.

But of course, we now live in a country where the government protects the wealthy, corporations, foreign countries, and itself, and certainly has no interest in protecting the people.

SO THERE'S THAT!!!

PS: Epstein didn't kill himself.

 

[mike mccormick]

They should have never been allowed to buy Remington in the first place. And someone must have greased the purchase to get it allowed.

As far as "just start your own multi million dollar, highly regulated, historically monolpolized operation if you don't like it", I hope you realize how unbelievably hyperbolic that really is...

I do. I am just tired of everyone's answer to every situation being to sue someone. The one's that pay the price are always the consumer

Respectfully...

Vista is a company. A soulless corporation that was established to make money. Not our buddy. Not here to keep us happy. It is there to make money. And they are...

As to the idea that nobody wanted Remington or could manage Remington *except* Vista. I wholly disagree. They won the bidding. They certainly were not the ONLY one bidding. And I wonder why they were willing to pay more than anyone else?

I agree the best thing is more competition. But the very idea that limiting that competition to some kind of "approved" sources is good for anything, I sincerely disagree. Not in this case, at least. Too much consolidation.

That is why beef brisket is 6 bucks a pound man!!! The industry was completely consolidated into the hands of a few players and no one said a word....

Every company is formed to make profit. It would be idiotic to invest huge sums of money with the expectation of loss. You are starting to sound a lot like these " worker's party" socialists. We either have capitalism or socialism. Make a choice, neither is perfect.