Properly sizing cases

[drop_point]

Randy Selby seems to have stopped learning circa 1970s and has repeated the same thing every day ever since.

 

[markT]

"outdated and not precise but it's better than just adjusting the FL die per the mfg.'s"
YES ^^^
"Randy Selby seems to have stopped learning circa 1970s and has repeated the same thing every day ever since."
Randy probably sees all the “new” cartridges and knows they are just marketing to continue / increase sales. And admittedly like most old timers thinks he way was the best. But facts speak loudly for Mr. Selby.

 

[59FLH]

That is my problem with guys who tell others, who may not have the same dies and chamber, how to do it

Bullseye.

 

[BoydAllen]

?

I am not sure what you don't understand but I will take a stab at re explaining what I was trying to say. First of all there was a typo. Wand should have been want. I corrected that in my original post. Secondly, the back of the lugs are supposed to be in a plane that is at right angles to the centerline of the bolt, and the lug abutments should be as well, except for the closing cams, which should not be the controlling factor toward the end of bolt close. The idea of there being some feel (minute resistance) toward the end of the bolt's close would seem imply some sort of angle on either the back of the lugs or their abutments.

Another poster wanted to know why someone made the distinction between a barn gun and a benchrest rifle. With a competition rifle we are looking at things that cause a group to enlarge within a range that factory rifles generally cannot get close to. My experience with competition rifles and well tuned varmint rifles, has been that if all of the cartridges are either equally tight or equally loose with refernce to bolt close feel, that tight groups are possible, but not if they are mixed. This difference is not so great that it would cause you to miss a squirrel at reasonable distance, but it is significant if you are trying for groups that have no paper between shots.

There was another question about gun handling and case life. When shooting for group in short range benchrest and in long range benchrest, it is often the case that shooters will shoot as fast as they can for as long as a wind condition holds. This is called running, For this to be done well one does not want cartridge caused resistance to bolt operation, because that would tend to slow things down, and possibly rock the rifle in the bags, which would deform them so that there would be shot to shot variation in their interface with the rifle, that would enlarge a group. If one is a serious competitor, he leaves no stone unturned in the pursuit of accuracy, and if that shortens case life it is considered an acceptable cost, if the result is smaller groups.

 

[Darwin]

Yeah. Actually I enjoy definitive answers. I also enjoyed f guffey’s posts.

It’s a little vanilla without him.

 

[K22]

"outdated and not precise but it's better than just adjusting the FL die per the mfg.'s"
YES ^^^
"Randy Selby seems to have stopped learning circa 1970s and has repeated the same thing every day ever sin'sce."
Randy probably sees all the “new” cartridges and knows they are just marketing to continue / increase sales. And admittedly like most old timers thinks he way was the best. But facts speak loudly for Mr. Selby.

I'm an old fart but if someone can help me improve my performance, I'm all ears. Many of fellow shooters have shown me a better way. Thanks. One in particular (RIP) was Frank Shuster.

I used Mr. Selby's procedure in the "old days" because that's all there was. Did it work? Yea, sort of and it was better than just screwing the die down per the mfg.'s directions. But as I said in an earlier post, it's tedious and not very precise.

Once a bench rest guy introduced me to bump gauges and measuring case head space, I adopted that process since it was much easier to control case head space and I liked the idea of having a precise measurement. But above all, it made sense. I still spot check my sizing against the rifle chamber just to verify my measurements, but my core procedure is using the bump gauge to set my sizing die.

I am guilty of trying to keep things as simple as possible especially when it comes to reloading. Self-confession is good for the soul, so they say.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

In a fired lot of cases, how many do you typically discover that need the shoulder “bumped”?

I had a barrel from which less than 10% needed the shoulder, and case body, sized each firing. For the life of that barrel, I was largely a neck sizer! At first I didn’t trust my measurements, so they were verified by stripping the bolt, then chambering the cases to determine if the bolt handle fell by gravity… it did!

Shooting the same load in the replacement barrel (same reamer) did not produce the same outcome. In fact the opposite in that all cases require full resizing each firing. Never was able to determine why. The smith that chambered both barrels suspects that the first barrel had a rougher chamber wall finish. Seems like a plausible explanation….?

In most chambers once a case has fully formed they will all need bumped, if for nothing more than gun handling. Once my cases fully form and i get the tight feel on closing the bolt on a fired case i will measure that shoulder and with my labelmaker i put that measurement on the barrel. At that point i can just set my die up to bump .004 or .002 or .003 with the jlc insert in the press and keep it moving. You can use a whidden click die or shims or shellholders or the pma lock ring to dial it in, or just keep measuring it. Once you know the measurements for that barrel you got it easy, and when sizing youll feel that one or 2 out of 100 thats going to be tight.

 

[drop_point]

"outdated and not precise but it's better than just adjusting the FL die per the mfg.'s"
YES ^^^
"Randy Selby seems to have stopped learning circa 1970s and has repeated the same thing every day ever since."
Randy probably sees all the “new” cartridges and knows they are just marketing to continue / increase sales. And admittedly like most old timers thinks he way was the best. But facts speak loudly for Mr. Selby.

Of course companies want to increase sales, but they still have to earn it. Selby is one of those guys that thinks nothing past 1970 is any good, but would tote the merits of the 7mm Rem Mag over the 7x57 all day long ignoring that a 7mmPRC is sized just right to utilize every ounce of performance with the best bullets available on a standard action.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Of course companies want to increase sales, but they still have to earn it. Selby is one of those guys that thinks nothing past 1970 is any good, but would tote the merits of the 7mm Rem Mag over the 7x57 all day long ignoring that a 7mmPRC is sized just right to utilize every ounce of performance with the best bullets available on a standard action.

Im actually floored that hes FL sizing

 

[justpassinthru]

That guy's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know but at least my presses are bolted solidly to the bench.

 

[rebs]

It’s a little vanilla without him.

where is Guffy

 

[Wolfdog91]

I've been told by many many shooters and reloaders way better then me to avoid the " the real gunsmith" like the plague.....

 

[skeeljc]

Just make a moc chamber with your reamer in a barrel drop and use it to measure the as fired cases. Then set your FL die to bump the cases 0.001' to 0.0015". Works for me.

 

[Murray Brook]

That guy's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know but at least my presses are bolted solidly to the bench.

Whenever I watch a youtube video concerning reloading and see the press moving in such a manner I just move to the next video. JMO

 

[STS]

Hey, at least the guy has a Lachmiller priming tool. He can't be all bad.

 

[Darwin]

where is Guffy

No clue.

 

[Juma]

In my opinion. You should measure, check in your chamber, and then see how consistently your measurements come out.

Also in my opinion, to get dead nuts consistent bump, it comes down to:

Annealing every time
Consistent lube technique
Press stroke consistency
cam over on comp shell holders
No expander ball

There’s surely other methods but this is what I found. I have a recess in my anvil base that goes on my caliper so a fired case with a dimple or high primer doesn’t interfere. The only thing I am certain of is that inconsistent shoulder bump shows up at distance. I went to public school so it took awhile for me to work all this out, I’m sure it’s a given to some. I damn near got admitted into the rubber room before I gotter all fingered out.

This is the voodoo but standard dies. Froggy "nailed" it saying no expander. It is redundant if you have annealed .

 

[J.d. Popkes]

This is the voodoo but standard dies. Froggy "nailed" it saying no expander. It is redundant if you have annealed .

?

 

[SRP Shooter 1]

I realize this is an accuracy shooter forum but sometimes we forget that all that are here are not accuracy buffs but just casual reloaders. The Mfgs instructions for adjusting sizing dies are for those that do not or desire the pinpoint accuracy that some seek but to allow the average guy to load hunting and shooting ammo just for his pleasure.

I think markT's post and video was very informative for a lot of loaders trying to get better at it.

KS

 

[Gargoyle]

This is the voodoo but standard dies. Froggy "nailed" it saying no expander. It is redundant if you have annealed .

I would like to hear more about this annealing and no expander thing. I will also try it and see for myself...