Problem sizing 22BR

[RePete]

I recently got my 700 action back from Pac-Nor with a 24" 14 twist super match barrel chambered in 22BR.
I bought Forster dies and sent the FL die to them along with a reamer print from Pac-Nor and had them hone the die to match.
Well after reading how easy forming 22BR brass was, I proceded to chamfer and lube a couple of cases.
I tried to test fit the first case and found it didn't want to go in the chamber more than half way. I screwed the die down a bit and after a couple of tries the case will fit but still won't let the bolt close. Trying to force the bolt closed a little starts to deform the neck similar to having a seater die set to deep.
I don't have a shell holder for my Wilson trimmer yet but ones on the way.
Is it possible that Pac-Nor cut my chamber to 22BR REM specs.
I ask because i think the case is to long and the drawing shown in the 22BR info is for 22BR Rem and shows case length about 30thou less than the 22BR Norma print that my chamber was supposed to be cut with.
The tech at Forster,Steve) told me that even though their die says 22RemBR it is made to fit 22NormaBR.
Am I missing something here or shouldn't I be able to chamber a round after running a 6BR case through a 22BR FL die??
I've never formed my own brass before so it's probably something I'm doing wrong. But for the life of me I can't figure out what.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[billmo]

Repete, Are you sure your chamber neck is for no-turn brass? If not the case will not go into the chamber without turning the necks to fit. Bill

 

[RePete]

Billmo,,,,,,,,,,,,The reamer print that Pac-Nor sent me says the neck dia. is .254.
Forster honed my die to .2395 and they are coming out that size.
You may very well be right since Pac-Nor offers a few different neck sizes.
Mine may have been cut with a smaller reamer.
I'll try turning one a little and see if that helps. I bought the K&M neck turner with carbide cutter anticipating having to turn some material in the doghnut area so I'll give it a try.
I didn't really want to turn the necks as this is strictly a varmint rig but it's not the end of the world if I have to.

One more question; do those of you who own this caliber have to trim the 6BR Lapua brass after necking down to 22cal?
My brass is 1.558 before necking down and 1.563 after. It's growing about 5thou.
Should I trim it back to standard 6BR length?
Thanks

 

[fdshuster]

RePete: Along with all the other dimensions, be sure to accurately measure the length of your chamber. Sounds like the mouth of your case may be bumping against the front of the chamber. I use the Sinclair chamber length gages for all my chambers, and record the length, usually .020" to .030" longer than max. case length). This dimension, minus .005" to .010" is then my "trim-to-length". Gages cost approx. $6.50 for each caliber, and are re-usable. Your problem could simply be: brass too long/ chamber too short.

 

[rstreich]

RePete, what is the length of your chamber supposed to be, i.e., what does it say on the reamer print that PacNor sent you?

Also, if the neck diameter is .254, why would Forster hone their die to .2395"? Is that supposed to be .2495"?

 

[fdshuster]

RePete: Additional thoughts on your chambering problem: Rather than the Sinclair gage, a quicker and maybe easier method would be to shorten your case length, in increments of about .005" at a time, trying to chamber after each cut. If you do get the bolt to close after one of those "shortening" cuts, record that length and you will have accomplished the same dimension as you would have with the Sinclair gage. I'm using Lapua 6BR necked down to 22BR, and no, I do not have to shorten the brass. Am able to use it "as is" with .015" of clearance in front of the case mouth.

 

[RePete]

fdshuster,,,"case to long/chamber to short" was my first guess also. I seem to have to use to many words to say something simple. Sorry :, I know the gauge you're talking about and should have ordered one when I ordered the Wilson shell holder. Hindsight??? I'll trim a little at a time like you suggest.
The reamer print shows the chamber demention as 1.5581 and right now my sized cases are 1.563. Like I said they grow about 5thou.

rstreich,,,, yea the die even has .2395 etched on top and the cases are coming out pretty close to that.
In the foot notes on the reamer print it even says "Resize N.D. 0.248.
I think I'll call Forster and see what they have to say. I'm starting to wish I hadn't sent them the die in the first place, but I was trying to do every thing right like the articles on this site suggest.
Once again "Hindsight"....
I'll get it sorted out I'm sure. And with you guys' help I might not have to much heart-burn in the end,,, so thanks alot for the help.
I'll stay at it and let ya know how it goes.
Later

 

[Preacher]

Repete-- You can bet money they chambered your barrel with their 22BR Remington reamer.... Been there done that with them.
Freaked me out when the darn cases didn't fit...
It's still in the shop waiting for me to redo it with my own 22BR reamer that works just fine.
I just shot a 3 shot groups with it this morning that measured at .726 at 300 yards out of my 18 inch XP 100......
Pac-Nor will take care of the problem for you....... but it shouldn't have happened to began with.....
I never trim or neck turn my brass before sizing, and your .247 NK will need turning before you fire it...
Mine is a .254 nk and I still turn a bit to clean up the necks....

 

[NorCalMikie]

Got a barrel that "Preacher" chambered with his .254 neck reamer.
Full length size the 6 BR Lapua brass, run it in a 22 BR die to neck it down, load them up and go. After that I use a Forster Bushing Bump die to do my 22 BR brass. Got bushings to do 6 BR and 22 BR.
I don't turn necks and the brass works like a champ. The chamber that "Preacher" cut for me with his reamer is beautiful. :thumb:

One thing. You need to know the "actual" length of your chamber. That will save lots of guessing when it comes to doing your brass. To trim or not to trim?? Measure it, write it down and you'll be all set.

 

[RePete]

Mikie,,,,,,,Thanks, I understand about measuring the chamber, but first I gotta get a case to chamber.

Preacher,,,You nailed it,turns out you're not as dumb as I look), I woke up at 3:30 this morning thinking about this perdiciment.
I took a brand new case and necked it down leaving the expander ball in and then smoked it with a candle and tried to chamber it. The smoke showed it stopping right at the neck.
The case measured .252 which is bigger than Pac-Nors print calls for,the print says resize to .248) but it's still smaller than the .254 dia. the reamer should have cut the chamber to.
At that point I called Pac-Nor they pulled my paper work and sure enough the chamber was cut to 22RemBR not 22NormaBR. Since I had his print that said 22NormaBR there wasn't much discussion. He said send it back and we'll rechamber it and do a one day turnaround.
I'll be out the return shipping but since they didn't try to play the blame game I didn't make a fuss.
I sure appreciate everyones help. I'll deffinatly let you all know how it goes.
I still need to figure out why Forster honed my die to .2395 when the expander ball,Mandrel) open's it back up to .252.
As far as I can see all that does is overwork the brass, and still leave me turning 4 thou.???
Maybe the 252 will fit the 254 chamber and leave me with a nice tight neck??? Guess I'll see. Still Pizzes me off cause that's why I sent it to the "experts" . I'll see how it goes and what Forster has to say.
I hate to say this, But Can't Anyone Do Anything Right Anymore??? These Mutts are taking alot of the fun out of my meager build.
OK rant over. Sorry

 

[brfun]

I hate to say this, But Can't Anyone Do Anything Right Anymore??? These Mutts are taking alot of the fun out of my meager build.
OK rant over. Sorry

no need to apologize! looks like Pac-Nor strikes again! i am sure hopping you have better luck with them than I did. I ordered a blank witch I had to send back because of a bore problem. they did make me another with out question after shipping it back.I the replacement four weeks latter. but with the wrong couture this time. didn't give them a third chance at screwing it up so I just had my smith go head and chamber it. I am still so ticked off at them I haven't taken the project any further. it sets in the safe still waiting to be bedded! that's enough of my complaining.
Keep you chin up and when you get it done I have no doubt you will love your 22BR. I sure do mine. let us know how you come out.
Brian

 

[Preacher]

Even with a screw up now and then thats always fixed with no BS involved they make a heck of a barrel and I still use them for 90% of my barrels, but I do the chambering.....

 

[RePete]

Yea Preacher,,,,,,,I agree that P-N's barrels are very accurate and I'would use one again without hesitation.
This is the third rifle they have rebarreled for me and two out of three have had problems.
There are no good smiths in my area so having the barrel manufacturer do the rest of the job was good for me.
I think I'll find a reputable Smith for any further builds.
I'm not going to bad-mouth Pac-Nor. The rifles they have done for me shoot far better than I ever will.

Thanks again for your diagnosis.
Later

 

[brfun]

sorry guys i didn't mean or want to start a ruckus over Pac-Nor i am just still very upset after they screwed mine up a second time.
all i meant really was to wish RePete the best of luck and that i think he will really enjoy his BR when done. and to let us know how it shoots. and bad me i got on my tirade.

as for a local smith for future projects i wish i could remember his name but the is a smith that pots on hear that i believe is in No or central Idaho. if i can ever remember it or see a post from him again i will let you know it might be worth a call or a visit to him. even hear in SW Idaho it is hard to find a good one. fortunately i have a smith that is good and right around the corner form me. but he is only doing a limited amount of work for people he knows any more. i wish i had the time and knowledge to do my own barrel work.
Brian

 

[RePete]

Hey Brian,,,,,, Nothing you said bothered me. I' appreciate you trying to help me sort this mess out.
As far as Pac-Nor goes my thinking is that they are better barrel manufacturers and gun smith's than they are buisness men. That's just my opinion, and you have a right to your opinion too.
After all, this is still America. For now anyways.
I sent the barreled action back yesterday. Hopefully I'll have it back soon. Pulling the trigger and the smell of gunpowder will go along way toward relieving my frustration.
Thanks Again
RePete

 

[RePete]

Thought I'd give you guys that helped me figure things out an update.

Got the barreled action back from Pac-Nor today. One day turn-around turned out to be a few weeks. What're ya going to do???

I had a couple of cases that Were necked down on my first attempt so I dropped them in the chamber. They seem to fit just fine. I'll move forward with necking down some more cases and take some loads to the range Fri. for some shoot and clean and scope tuning.
Hopefully things will start going my way now so I'll stay positive and let you all know how it goes.
Thanks again for the help.
Later

 

[brfun]

Sweet!
Do keep us up to date on how it goes! i am pleased to hear thugs are coming together for you and your BR. With shipping time the turn around although not one day wasn't to bad it took them a lot longer than that on there second attempt at my barrel. Have fun and good luck with your shoot and clean this weekend.
Brian

 

[NorCalMikie]

Charlie: Got anymore updates on the "sizing" and seating problems? Just got to hear the "bottom line".

 

[RePete]

OK Mike,,,,,,,,,here's the deal.
I had to put this down and step away for a day. I thought about going to an anger management class but I live out in the stix and there aren't any available.
This morning I put on my thinking cap,it's 58 yrs old and still looks like new). I measured the FL sized brass and it's .252. My reamer print says "Resize to .248". The .252 brass fits in my chamber but will not fit in the Sizer die, which you already knew.
I called Forsner and talked to a tech. He agreed that that was the problem and offered to hone my seater die or send me a new FL die.
I opted for the new FL die. He said they would send it out ASAP.
I sure hope ASAP isn't the same thing as one day turn around or it'll be another three weeks before I can move forward.
Right now I'd settle for just moving sideways.
I swear everything that can go wrong with this "Simple" build has and then some.
I wouldn't be suprised if the damb thing doesn't blow up in my face when and if I ever get to fire it.
The way it's going I probably won't have to worry about that, I'll die of old age first!!!!
Later

 

[NorCalMikie]

Charlie: Sounds like you're on the right track now. Hang in there and it "will" get sorted out. Just remember, "patience is a virtue"! You might need to kick the dog too!
I'am rooting for you. :thumb: