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Primer Pockets

I was out Sunday morning testing with a few friends when one mentioned the pockets on his 6.5x47 cases were all loosening to the point the primer would just hold in the pocket. I took a few of his cases home to check with different primers. I tried TulAmmo small rifle cci 41 and cci small rifle magnum. All primers seated with very little pressure. I can't measure scientifically only anecdotally. I did notice the cases had to be pushed into the shell holder so it made me wonder if the primer pocket expands by itself or does the pocket enlarge as the base expands. I tried a ring die to see if that would matter but it doesn't reach far enough to help. After writing this it sounds like a just what happens question since the pocket is stretched and should be discarded. My friend said he has 3 or 4 hundred cased that have loosened so I thought I'd ask what might be happening. He does shoot midrange bench with a 140 grain bullet. That's about it if anyone has an idea I'd be happy to listen. Thanks
 
If the cases have more than ten reloads then it's time to get new brass. If there are less than 10 loads on the cases then lowering the pressure is a good step. Seat the bullets deeper to back them away from the lands, reduce the load, or use harder brass.
 
The pockets enlarge when the case head expands. The pocket is surrounded by solid brass all the way to the outside. It is caused by big chambers or excessive pressure or both. Matt

The case head is not entirely in the chamber. The extraction groove has to be outside of the chamber. IMO 100% stiff loads. Why does everyone want the highest charge they can get away with?

reloading_11.jpg
 
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Don't have a drawing but the case head a little beyond the extraction groove is not in the chamber. It is in the bolt face. Has to be stiff loads. Why does everyone want the highest charge they can get away with?
Have you not seen most here want to know the bullet speed is rather then how good it shoots Larry
 
Some shooting disciplines require the highest velocity that the shooter can get. Not everyone uses their gun for the same thing. As a hunter I only need to get my bullet into the vitals out to 200 yards but the guy shooting 1000 yard competition needs more velocity to keep his bullet above the sonic transition speeds and he needs more accuracy. I am happy with anything under 1 inch at 100 yards where the competition shooter needs groups at half to a quarter MOA.
There are those shooters who are more interested in velocity than accuracy. Some of them actually believe that velocity makes up for a lack of accuracy. I believe they are rare and as they get more experienced they understand the need for accuracy over velocity. I use my chronograph to measure the velocity (as well as the consistency) of my ammunition so I can use my ballistics programs to estimate the trajectory. I then fire the rounds at different ranges to apply the actual trajectory to my DOPE sheet.
I believe that most here are more interested in accuracy than how fast they can make their bullets go.
 
Some shooting disciplines require the highest velocity that the shooter can get. Not everyone uses their gun for the same thing. As a hunter I only need to get my bullet into the vitals out to 200 yards but the guy shooting 1000 yard competition needs more velocity to keep his bullet above the sonic transition speeds and he needs more accuracy. I am happy with anything under 1 inch at 100 yards where the competition shooter needs groups at half to a quarter MOA.
There are those shooters who are more interested in velocity than accuracy. Some of them actually believe that velocity makes up for a lack of accuracy. I believe they are rare and as they get more experienced they understand the need for accuracy over velocity. I use my chronograph to measure the velocity (as well as the consistency) of my ammunition so I can use my ballistics programs to estimate the trajectory. I then fire the rounds at different ranges to apply the actual trajectory to my DOPE sheet.
I believe that most here are more interested in accuracy than how fast they can make their bullets go.

Many of the post say something like I am a beginner reloader. From the description of the rifle it couldn't possible be used as nothing more than a deer rifle or shooting for fun. They still say I want more velocity.
 
Yes, new reloaders sometimes focus on velocity. As they mature that usually changes.
I was there once, a long time ago. It's all part of the learning curve.
 
Many of the post say something like I am a beginner reloader. From the description of the rifle it couldn't possible be used as nothing more than a deer rifle or shooting for fun. They still say I want more velocity.
Shooting a deer rifle is the same as a arrow accuracy still trumps speed . A miss is a miss fast miss is no different then a slow miss
Larry
 
I don't know how you could possibly loosen the pockets on 6.5x47 brass

Really? I have seen lots of loaders who believe that the loads in the books are put together by lawyers and that you can easily go 20% over those lawyer maximums. I have seen a guy use a mallet to unload a Ruger RedHawk in 44 magnum and called his loads "a little warm". He was loading 15 grains of Unique with a 240 grain JSP - that's about a 50% overload. He did blow the gun up and sent it back to Ruger. They did fix it for free but he sold it just after he got it back. He said it was not a very strong gun.

The good folks that put together the loads in the published data have the best equipment in the world to monitor pressure/time curves. There is a good reason the tell you not to go beyond the maximum listed loads and to carefully work up to the maximum from a reduced load.
 
If you're going to go down that road, at least give the complete details. You try to make it sound as though the vast majority of reloaders cram as much powder up to the top of the neck as they can, then squash some bullets down into it and go shoot, which is completely untrue. Yes, many reloaders that also happen to compete do use loads that are much hotter than book loads. However, they usually have extremely long freebores and can seat bullets much further out than mag length, thereby lowering the pressure required to hit a specific velocity. Book loads are not only meant for mag length, there are a whole host of other reasons why they are generally pretty conservative. Trying to claim that they should be the ultimate guideline in terms of maximum loads for people loading for competition with much longer freebores and more usable case capacity is foolish. They're not at all the same thing.
 
The case head is not entirely in the chamber. The extraction groove has to be outside of the chamber. IMO 100% stiff loads. Why does everyone want the highest charge they can get away with?

reloading_11.jpg
The reamer being smaller will let help with pockets also. Many gunsmiths have tightened up the back end to help with it. If you hold the brass to the extractor groove it helps the unsupported head. The downside to the smaller reamer is bolt click. Matt
 
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Gstaylorg,
I whole-heartedly agree. Each gun is an individual and the needs of each loader can vary greatly. Competition shooters carefully work up their loads so they don't have to use a mallet to unload. Different chambers, different free bore and even the leade angle can have variations that are more or less tolerant of powder charges.
Competitive shooters know a great deal more about their rifles than most shooters. They also have very specific needs from their ammo. Knowing that, I would not recommend that a hunter attempt to use the same load in his "off-the-shelf" rifle as the 1000 yard competitor any more than I would expect the 1000 yard competitor to use a box of Remington factory ammo to use in competition.
 
The reamer being smaller will let help with pockets also. Many gunsmiths have tightened up the back end to help with it. If you hold the brass to the extractor groove it helps the unsupported head. The downside to the smaller reamer is bolt click. Matt
I agree, and for extraction issue mitigation there are attributes to include in the design.
-Coned bolt/breech, with clearance well within 5thou
-Sufficient barrel steel around the chamber to support intended pressures(this could mean magnum diameter action/tenon for .473 casehead cartridge).
-tight and fine action/tenon threading

With this, if your chamber web area clearance is held within new brass spring back, then you can keep your cases from ever yielding there. This is important because yielded brass is never the same again. It takes a new set, leading right back to popping extraction.
Wile you could flare a chamber at the breech to ease the popping, the interference fit is still there. That's working around a problem instead of fixing it. But if your plan left you there, you gotta do what you gotta do.
 

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