Powder, primer, and ammo price gouging!

[Ned Ludd]

From the whining, you'd think it was immoral for a reloading supply distributor to raise their prices to reflect the current supply/demand issues. Claiming that major distributors are "price gouging" because you simply don't like the higher prices is ludicrous, unless you happen to know their specific cost and profit margin for any particular item. I guarantee that few, if any, shooters complaining about preloading supply prices actually have information about item-specific cost and profit margin for any of the large vendors. So stating that they are "price gouging" is a totally unsupported claim. But hey, if it makes you feel better. The correct answer is simple...if you don't like the price, don't buy it.

 

[6.5 forever]

Wow. I guess the whole world is price gouging.(INFLATION)

 

[Old Navy]

I live in the top off Utah. For many years all we had was mom and pop type of sporting good stores. We finally had one of the big chain stores come to town. They had a great selection and always had plenty of reloading supplies on the shelf. I did a lot of business with them just because of that. One day they they didn't have the powder I needed so I went back to one of my old favorite stores. They had the powder and it was $3 a pound cheaper. As I was checking out I asked him how come his price was so good compared to the new store in town. This is what the old white haired gentleman said: I have found out over the years that I can fondle a customer a little every time he comes in and he still comes back. If I screw him one time I will never see him again. Amen! I am keeping notes.

 

[Gary O'Neal]

Why don’t we call a spade a spade here. Who are the gougers?

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

There are some sellers out there who maintain prices that are reasonable. I just ordered a years supply of two kinds of bullets I shoot and the price was the same as the last time I bought them.

I don't like to over pay for things just like the rest of you. That being said, If I need something to continue my hobby, I will bite the bullet and pay the price. Furter, when things settle down, and that seller is the only one or is cheaper and has what I need, I will go back to them when things settle down.

So when it is over, and I need something, I will look towards the good guys, but if they don't have it, I will be glad to order from the bad guys.

Those of you who are saying they will never go back to whoever you think is gouging are kidding yourselves. If they have it and you need it, you will buy it.

I buy my bullets from BLUECOLLAR RELOADING.

 

[joshb]

Nick! You old scoundrel! I’ve been waiting for someone to use the “bite the bullet” idiom!

 

[Mulligan]

From the whining, you'd think it was immoral for a reloading supply distributor to raise their prices to reflect the current supply/demand issues. Claiming that major distributors are "price gouging" because you simply don't like the higher prices is ludicrous, unless you happen to know their specific cost and profit margin for any particular item. I guarantee that few, if any, shooters complaining about preloading supply prices actually have information about item-specific cost and profit margin for any of the large vendors. So stating that they are "price gouging" is a totally unsupported claim. But hey, if it makes you feel better. The correct answer is simple...if you don't like the price, don't buy it.

Are you really saying you haven't seen the gouging? Is or is not $60.00 a pound gouging? A local shop had H4350 for $360.00 an 8 pound jug, I consider that gouging.
When PV, Graf and Sons, MidSouth, Third Generation, and a few others have held the line on prices, we know fairly well that the wholesale prices have not gone up to the extent the gougers are charging.
I have respected you posts in the past.

CW

 

[JimSC]

In the last 10 months I have managed to purchase three 8 pound jugs of powder all at or close to pre covid prices. Purchases were made from Powder Valley and Mid South. Also been getting bullets from various suppliers also at or close to pre covid prices. Supplies are out there at reasonable prices with the exception of primers and they are starting to come back. It's a free country though and if someone wants to charge or pay more that is their right.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Are you really saying you haven't seen the gouging? Is or is not $60.00 a pound gouging? A local shop had H4350 for $360.00 an 8 pound jug, I consider that gouging.
When PV, Graf and Sons, MidSouth, Third Generation, and a few others have held the line on prices, we know fairly well that the wholesale prices have not gone up to the extent the gougers are charging.
I have respected you posts in the past.

CW

This has nothing to do with whether you respect what I post or not. It's simply about the facts versus human nature. You don't have the faintest idea of what the vendor paid for a given item. Therefore, calling it "price gouging" is ludicrous. A perfect example is Bruno's. They not only purchase reloading components direct from the manufacturer, they are also a reseller of components purchased from other reloading supply vendors. Again, you have absolutely no idea what they paid for a given item, nor do you have any idea what Lot# a given item might be from, or when it was obtained by the vendor. Thus, calling a price you don't like "gouging" simply because you don't like it is ridiculous. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. And if you want to know what a massive price markup truly looks like, check the prices for various items on Gunbroker. Then compare the Gunbroker prices to what the majority of commonly-used online reloading supply vendors are charging for the same items and try to tell me the online vendors are "gouging" their customers. It's all whiney BS from individuals that are upset simply because they don't like the fact that prices for pretty much all components have noticeably increased. Again, if you don't like the price, don't buy and do without.

 

[kiwijohn]

You have it good, I had a friend call me from a reloading shop he was visiting, here in New Zealand.
hey dont you use CCI 450's he asked,
I sure do I replied.
Want me to grab some, he asked
Yep!
When he got them back to our town I was a bit peeved at the $169 / K
H4350 is $99/lb I could go on, but you get the picture.
Flip side, I can get Nosler CC 155 projectiles for 40c ea

 

[drop_point]

This has nothing to do with whether you respect what I post or not. It's simply about the facts versus human nature. You don't have the faintest idea of what the vendor paid for a given item. Therefore, calling it "price gouging" is ludicrous. A perfect example is Bruno's. They not only purchase reloading components direct from the manufacturer, they are also a reseller of components purchased from other reloading supply vendors. Again, you have absolutely no idea what they paid for a given item, nor do you have any idea what Lot# a given item might be from, or when it was obtained by the vendor. Thus, calling a price you don't like "gouging" simply because you don't like it is ridiculous. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. And if you want to know what a massive price markup truly looks like, check the prices for various items on Gunbroker. Then compare the Gunbroker prices to what the majority of commonly-used online reloading supply vendors are charging for the same items and try to tell me the online vendors are "gouging" their customers. It's all whiney BS from individuals that are upset simply because they don't like the fact that prices for pretty much all components have noticeably increased. Again, if you don't like the price, don't buy and do without.

When the manufacturer charges one price of the distributor or seller, then they have their markup, one seller sells it for $30 and the next sells it for $50, there is gouging somewhere along the way. Period. I'm not saying any one person is or isn't gouging (though I can guarantee you one gouger has proven they gouge on shipping and hazmat), supply and demand should always dictate price.

I won't buy from vendor A for $50 when vendor B is selling for $30. What ends up happening is Vendor B sells out of stock, then vendor A who had the same access gets to sell to the desperate for $50 to those not lucky enough to catch it from vendor B before the influx. Vendor A gets to enjoy a higher margin and still sell out simply because Vendor B is trying to do right by their customers. What we lack is price equilibrium because Vendor B is a good guy.

I totally understand reduced sales volume and covering fixed overhead may require price increases. That said, everybody increasing margin "because they can" doesn't deserve business. Telling me that such price disparities are normal is illogical. The disparity itself is evidence. Let us hope this is solved soon and we can all put this behind us.

If you're going to sit here with a straight face and tell me gouging isn't occurring, I've got some oceanfront property to sell you...

 

[js2013]

This has nothing to do with whether you respect what I post or not. It's simply about the facts versus human nature. You don't have the faintest idea of what the vendor paid for a given item. Therefore, calling it "price gouging" is ludicrous. A perfect example is Bruno's. They not only purchase reloading components direct from the manufacturer, they are also a reseller of components purchased from other reloading supply vendors. Again, you have absolutely no idea what they paid for a given item, nor do you have any idea what Lot# a given item might be from, or when it was obtained by the vendor. Thus, calling a price you don't like "gouging" simply because you don't like it is ridiculous. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. And if you want to know what a massive price markup truly looks like, check the prices for various items on Gunbroker. Then compare the Gunbroker prices to what the majority of commonly-used online reloading supply vendors are charging for the same items and try to tell me the online vendors are "gouging" their customers. It's all whiney BS from individuals that are upset simply because they don't like the fact that prices for pretty much all components have noticeably increased. Again, if you don't like the price, don't buy and do without.

Sounds to me you're doing your share of whining. Unless YOU know the price some vendors are paying vs charging, then you can't say it's not "gouging" (where in this case the term "gouging" is defined by the buyer.

 

[jk80]

This has nothing to do with whether you respect what I post or not. It's simply about the facts versus human nature. You don't have the faintest idea of what the vendor paid for a given item. Therefore, calling it "price gouging" is ludicrous. A perfect example is Bruno's. They not only purchase reloading components direct from the manufacturer, they are also a reseller of components purchased from other reloading supply vendors. Again, you have absolutely no idea what they paid for a given item, nor do you have any idea what Lot# a given item might be from, or when it was obtained by the vendor. Thus, calling a price you don't like "gouging" simply because you don't like it is ridiculous. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. And if you want to know what a massive price markup truly looks like, check the prices for various items on Gunbroker. Then compare the Gunbroker prices to what the majority of commonly-used online reloading supply vendors are charging for the same items and try to tell me the online vendors are "gouging" their customers. It's all whiney BS from individuals that are upset simply because they don't like the fact that prices for pretty much all components have noticeably increased. Again, if you don't like the price, don't buy and do without.

It's just as ridiculous to state they aren't price gouging. You don't know what their bottom line is anymore than the people claiming price gouging. I'm just getting into rifles more so I'm a relative newbie. I've reloaded for years starting with shotgun ammo and branching out from there. I've seen this shortage cr@& for years and have always stocked up well ahead for any ammo I shoot and reload for so I'm in a pretty good place. I shoot between 20 to 30 thousand shotshells a year so I buy in quantity. This year has been a struggle. Manufacturers are starting to cut distributors out and sell direct. The result is shells have DOUBLED in price. I'm sorry but I don't need to see their books to know their costs to produce those shells have gone up that much. It's killing the sport of ata trap. Junior shooters who we've done a massive amount of work to get them involved is starting to wither. There will come a point when even the most avid shooter will say enough. I'm seeing it happen in my sport now. The greed of Manufacturers and there shareholders, stagnate wages and inflation could very well be the perfect storm that kills all shooting sports. In 1978,79 shot went up to 25 dollars a bag and shells took a jump. The trap ranges were noticeably down on participants. I hope we can weather the storm and not see it happen again. It affected many clubs, some that unfortunately couldn't recover. Jmho.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Buy enough for at least two presidential terms, ideally when it’s priced reasonably obviously, then you don’t need to worry about the shortages and high prices. The stuff keeps really nice on the shelf. Ain’t gonna get cheaper. Don’t buy it in the same way I buy milk. Don’t let the “hoarder” nickname scare you, embrace it. Never walk by components. When they’re available buy a couple thousand a month in the good times. Easy.

 

[Ned Ludd]

There seems to be a fondness here for making statements that have no basis in fact. This is what's happening: prices have gone up for a variety of reasons. It makes some people feel better to call it "gouging" and complain about it in a public shooting forum. You know it as well as I do. It's just what some people do. Believe otherwise if you wish, but it won't change the prices, so the choice of whether to pay a stated price is still up to you.

 

[Dave M.]

Lucklily I had a a very nice member here on AS help me out on powder for next year at a reasonable price! Thank you, good people on here! BUT as for these big distributors that are charging an arm and a leg for supplys. I, for one, will not forget. When supplys are more readily available, I will not be buying anything for these distributors ever again. I know all about supply/demand and price, but I also know you do not take advantage of your customers in a time of need! I was looking recently. In my area, when there was a short gas shortage just a few years ago, there were some gas stations price gouging. People found out and quit patronizing them. They are all now out of business. As far a people helping out others and big distributors not gouging, thank you! You will have all my future business. Rant over.

Ditto. I have a member that is helping me out with powder too, otherwise it would be back to the range to figure out a new load for the rifle. Thanks to ALL the great men and women on this site that have helped me in so many ways, from components to knowledge and even gunsmith work or advice.
dave

 

[SHall]

Are you really saying you haven't seen the gouging? Is or is not $60.00 a pound gouging? A local shop had H4350 for $360.00 an 8 pound jug, I consider that gouging.
When PV, Graf and Sons, MidSouth, Third Generation, and a few others have held the line on prices, we know fairly well that the wholesale prices have not gone up to the extent the gougers are charging.
I have

 

[Tommie]

Just like there primer prices also. Not this week but last time they had some cci#41 primers i think they were going for $120 per thousand. 3 weeks ago i walked into sportsman's warehouse and they had them for $42 per thousand. Thats a big difference

I always cheer for the small business owners. But I gotta admit that Sportsman’s has kept their prices short of the loony levels.

 

[SHall]

Mulligan above is right on with what I am talking about. Since we are whining and being ludicrous, I guess the fellow on gun broker that just sold 8 pounds of H4895 for $1400. ($175 a pound) was not price gouging and trying to take advantage of people in a pinch. Some would say, more power to him, I say it is unethical. But it sounds like I have had it all wrong and I apologize. I have been enlightened by a few about some things I did not even think about. The guy that was asking $175 a pound for H4895 and got it, was just trying to help people out. Out of the kindness of his heart he was just meeting the supply/demand of the market. Who am I to judge him, I do not know his particular situation, cost, or profit margin. How silly of me. He might have payed $170. a pound himself and sold it for $175 just to help out his fellow shooters. He just made enough to buy supper that night. He is one of the good guys, not someone trying to cash in. It is not price gouging at all. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, I have a new perspective on all this.

 

[Drolds72]

So where is the line between a good business decision and gouging? The guy who paid 175 a pound: not smart, but just maybe he’d rather shoot than not. Or maybe he painted the tape. It didn’t really sell- he just made it look that way, so when the next guy sees 125 a pound, he thinks he is stealing it and buys it. Everything is for sale for a price, if it’s high enough.