Powder Comparison
- Thread starter RonS
- Start date
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/smokeless-powder-burn-rate-chart.4008634/Looks like your 8208 is #117 in this chart for comparison.
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
I think that 2495 would be a good substitute. The burn rate chart that I looked at shows that 2460 is closer to 8208, but some shooters here are using the 2495 in this application with very good results. Jackie Schmidt is one of them.
2495 is a little slower than 2460 but almost exactly the same as H4895
2495 is a little slower than 2460 but almost exactly the same as H4895
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
Here is a snip from the ADI chart:
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
Burn rate charts are only superficially usable. The positioning changes with every change in lot number from the same suppliers. You can't position similar powders next to each other so they get listed as either being faster or slower depending on who is assembling the chart.
Look at the ADI chart carefully, ADI considers it to be a stand alone powder. You're going to have to test.
Enjoy the search!
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
Burn rate charts are only superficially usable. The positioning changes with every change in lot number from the same suppliers. You can't position similar powders next to each other so they get listed as either being faster or slower depending on who is assembling the chart.
Look at the ADI chart carefully, ADI considers it to be a stand alone powder. You're going to have to test.
Enjoy the search!
I don’t have 2230 or 2460 but I do have 2200, 2495 and AR Comp, thx
Hoot
Silver $$ Contributor
AR-Comp is an amazing powder as discovered with early adopters of the 6.5 Grendel. While it gives up about 50 fps to 8208 in that application, it is very stable with wide accuracy nodes. I would wholeheartedly recommend giving it a try, starting at 26.8 gr.
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I'd go further and say that you're being far too kind. Chart position is frequently not even superficially usable Seriously though, there are so many pitfalls in these charts, they're of little use other than making a very general classification. Powder manufacturers appear to carry out, or more likely interpret the results of, closed-bomb tests very differently. Vihtavuori is a serial culprit for listing powders as being slower burning than they are in most applications, sometimes almost dangerously so; Explosia (maker of Lovex / Shooters World propellants) also, but in reverse - ie showing powders as being much faster burning than they turn out, at least for the S-series extruded grades.
See:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/powder_burn_rate.htm
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3657
in the latter, Viht N550 and Lovex SO70 (SW 4350). The reason for QuickLOAD v.3.6 being so far out for N550 (and any other powder where this applies) is that the compiler works off data from the powder manufacturer for the burn rate factor (Ba). In QL's case though, powder Ba values are updated based on user feedback. N160 has apparently been much revised in the current v.3.9 compared to the v.3.6 I was using until a few weeks ago, so usable charges are now considerably reduced on its findings.
For a different approach, Norma Precision's chart is interesting based as it is on actual test firings of a common charge weight in a single cartridge with IMR-4350 as the baseline and given relative values of 100 for both MV and pressure.
http://www.blaserbuds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14866
It's very out of date now unfortunately in many respects as Norma URP aside it hasn't been updated over 20 or more years - H. VarGet is missing for instance.
100%
There is no such thing as “the” burn rate chart. Most of them disagree with each other - sometimes severely. I treat the charts as a very general starting point to do actual testing.
That sounds promising, I was using 27.7gr of 8208 to achieve 5 shot bug holes at 100 yards. I will be testing AR Comp
NZ_Fclass
Silver $$ Contributor
I suspect that you are correct. As you know, both are ADI powders. It is believed that 8208 is a "version" of 2206H developed for the Australian military 223 and originally called AR2210.( a non- canister powder number) It seems that the kernels are smaller, and The Aussie military are sure to need a very temperature stable powder, given the extremes where they serve. It's a super powder in Grendel, with heavier bullets and I will be testing in 223 with 69's and up this summer. The "original" 2206 was developed as a temperature stable version of Mulwex 2201, which we used to use for TR. Velocities were markedly up on a hot day. Ammo boxes were left under the car in the shade. 2206 was then reformulated to 2206H ( H for Hodgdon) to be more like IMR4895. The other powder that seems close to 8208 is VV133, giving similar velocities.
[As always], we're straying around into different cartridges / calibres as far as I can see. Nevertheless ..... my halfpence worth. I was a great fan of 8208 in 308 Win with 155.5 Bergers and SP 'Palma' brass. A very consistent performer and no need to change the load between chilly north of England and 90+ August in Raton temperatures. We've lost it in the UK on regulatory changes along with all other ADI and pre-Enduron IMR grades, so 8208 RIP I'm afraid. I did try some I had left in 6.5 Grendel as a much-favoured US combination, but found N133 superior which is of course handy as we have a good Viht supply chain here.
Re AR-Comp that @Hoot mentions, I also bought this powder for the Grendel given good US reports, but have yet to try it in this cartridge. It has turned out very well in long-throat, long-barrel 223 with 77s as an H4895 / 8208 alternative. A bit faster burning than H4895, but a star performer and a real find.
NZ_Fclass
Silver $$ Contributor
Not sure of your supply - but Power Pro Varmint is the real star in the Grendel. I managed to get some a couple of years ago - but now very difficult - and 30% more expensive than other powders. Good velocity and accuracy - at least 100fps quicker than 8208 without pressure signs for 123 Lapua's.
We've never had the Power-Pro powders in the UK and they don't appear to be REACH-compliant in our new regime. (Likewise Winchester StaBALL6.5)
It's a bit odd - most older St. Marks powders such as H335, Bl-C(2), H414/W760 are Reach non-compliant and so no longer imported, but other more recently introduced products from the same source are OK and we still get them. eg Li'l Gun and the CFE powders. So, you might expect StaBALL and the Power-Pros to be compliant ............ !?
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
I shoot 2495 behind the Barts 80 grn at about 3420 FPS with great results.
Longtrain
Gold $$ Contributor
Interesting…what cartridge, a 6mm of sorts?
It seems I was mistaken here as our Hodgdon / Alliant / Winchester importer-distributor does list them. Assuming they are actually available, I'll give them a try.
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