Poor Savage Quality Control

[750k2]

Other than being a little ugly at first - My Savages are almost my favorite toy.
Had one with burrs on the crown - lapped them out and was good to go.
The other shoots fantastic as she came in the 4's @ 200 for 5 with 70 vlds.
They now are a 223 Shilen and Pac-nor 22 BR.
The triggers are not the best - but for what they are for I love them - almost
2-stage like and you can back out and get in again with no surprises.
And ya I know what good triggers are I have Annie's, jewels and Shilens.
As for pinned 22 bbls nothing wrong with that or so Anschutz thinks.
Got try a new Ruger or Rem - way more issues with them.
I wouldn't own a new Rem - other than 40x - but who's payin that for
something that needs work.
Ruger?? The older 10/22 receivers were not to bad.
Savage's pretty good some time's borderline awesome accuracy for a bunch
of production parts slapped together.
Plus I save at least $150/ re-barrel = a free 8lb'r
CZ and tikka, howa etc.. are ok but would go back to older trued 700's
before them.
You roll the dice with every mfg. In centerfire I'll put my chips on Savage.
But I'm never happy with a raw product

 

[40X Guy]

I still like my Savages, but as Wayne-15 Tango said, I too do not like the feel of the action but can live with it. As far as triggers, all mine now wear Rifle Basix triggers. And look at any factory class match all across the country, guys are placing and winning with Savage anywhere from 4-7 savages in top 10. I still like my Remy's better, but for out of the box especially in the last 5-10 years they are simply hard to beat. And if they stand behind product, thats good enough for me.

Frank

 

[bozo699]

750k2,
You are spot on sir
Wayne.

 

[15Tango]

It does not matter what the trigger can be set at. What matters is what it can be set at so that it is safe, reliable, and crisp. The numbers I gave you for the Savage meet all three objectives.

You're the one that brought up pull weights trying to compare what the other can be set at vs a Savage. All the other manufacturers in question can be set to be safe, reliable and crisp. It's just that Savage knows theirs is a cheap and unreliable setup so though put that safety bar in.

I'll save you a bit of time. Have a read of this article.

http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm

There are plenty of articles out there concerning barrel manufacturing. The least understood of all of them is hammer forging because it's rare in the states. People tend to be scared of things they don't understand. Find two articles that say the same thing about cut rifling versus buttoned . . . It's like trying to get two economists to agree.

My observation is that benchrest shooters don't spare any expense in getting the best equipment. So cost is obviously not an obstacle in getting the best setup. So, how many use hammer forged barrels? Zero?

I don't know if you're referring to buying hammer forged barrel blanks or the equipment itself to make the barrels. The equipment itself, like I said before, is more than a $1 million which is why there aren't any custom makers using it. Most of these shops starts out as small operations and even when they get big like the largest names in the game still can't afford to drop a million dollars on a setup. Now, if nobody's making or offering a hammer forged blank to be bough, how is anybody supposed to be able to buy one? Hell, if you order a custom barrel from CZ's own custom shop out of KC they end up using a Lothar Walther - they can't even get a hammer forged blank.

None that I know of. But, I do know mine shoots better than what Cooper guarantees. What does CZ, Sako, and Tikka Guarantee?

One MOA, which isn't fantastic but at least they have that much faith in what they're making. Savage, not so much.

I think Savage has done a great job of turning dollars into accuracy, and they are currently the best at it for factory guns. And, at the high end, that includes Cooper.

JMO

Wow, that's pretty bold. They make the best rifles out there beating out even Cooper. Like you said, that is just [your] opinion, no matter how flawed.

It's great you like them, it'll keep some people employed.

Wayne

 

[Dgd6mm]

;D Ilike em, I like em alot. Don't care how crappy some people think they are.

 

[15Tango]

Ilike em, I like em alot. Don't care how crappy some people think they are.

I like my Ford! I bet a lot of people on here think they're crappy and would never own one. I'll still like mine at the end of the day.

Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Huhhhhhhh,
( Ford powerpuke............Mossberg)
( Dodge Cummins............Borden custom)
;D
Wayne.

 

[Kenny474]

I was always a Chevy man until owned 2 Ford trucks, just bulletproof, can't kill 'em if you try.

As for the Dodge, I guess they're OK if you like to do tranny swaps every 20k. :

Currently driving a Ranger I bought for $300 over 3 years ago for a "winter beater" while I was building up my Cherokee for off-road. I'm still driving it and have under $1000 in it after 3 years and 65k I put on it, that's including what I paid for it along with oil changes, tires and all other maintenance. Who said Fords aren't tough? 8)

As for Savage's, I love 'em and always will. I know others feel differently, but I have had great luck with mine, I like how they are built, and they can be made into very accurate rifles for very little money.

I have owned a Remmy bolt gun, poorly machined POS if you ask me. As for the CZ's and Tikka's, they're nice, but I just prefer what I get for my dollar from Savage.

I do like the Remington semi-auto and pump rifles. I have owned several and still own an a 740 30-06 as well as a newer 750 .35 Whelen. Two of my favorite hunting rifles that I have ever owned. Both will shoot under MOA and rip off follow up shots faster than any bolt gun ever will. Nothing to dislike there.

But when it comes to bolt rifles,
To each their own, and to me, a Savage!

 

[K0na_stinky]

To be honest, with the two photos, I don't see the problem. That said, I don't know why Savage is doing that 45 deg. cut. I would much prefer a straight cut, and no attempt to clean it up with a bevel.

Savage has been changing their rimfire barrel mount method, and I am not up to date. I understand some of their recent barrels are threaded. However, the older ones, and the one I have is a press fit, and a pin. They are quite ugly to replace. The threaded one would be easier, but in the end it would probably cost you more than a new gun.

It would be much cheaper to have a re-crown done. Check the Gunsmithing section of the forums here. Matti has posted a question there about doing the re-crown. There are good ways, and very bad ones.

Ron those pics were of my rifle and not my girl friends. My crown is good. I didn’t have hers around to take pics of. I’ll get some soon.

 

[McKinneyMike]

Tango you obviously have a very biased opinion, but from my experiences and from all that I have read on the web, your opinion is in the minority today. I know a few die hard Remington guys that just can not accept the facts. Savage is one of the best shooting rifles in production right now and if I wanted to spend the amount of money to but a Tikka or a CZ, sorry, but not me, plus they are not upgradeable like the Savages are these days.
OK the action is a like clunky, but there are no other rifles that a person can buy off the shelf and offer the accuracy. That is something that rings true, just look at a few forums.
As was stated earlier, I could really care less what you may dislike about Savages, because they perform and that is all that i care about. Accuracy is the bottom line. All else is replaceable And at the cost, it is an absolute no brainer for the buyers of these firearms. It is not a wonder that they have become so extremely popular worldwide. Those are facts that biases simply pale against.

 

[K0na_stinky]

Tango you obviously have a very biased opinion, but from my experiences and from all that I have read on the web, your opinion is in the minority today. I know a few die hard Remington guys that just can not accept the facts. Savage is one of the best shooting rifles in production right now and if I wanted to spend the amount of money to but a Tikka or a CZ, sorry, but not me, plus they are not upgradeable like the Savages are these days.
OK the action is a like clunky, but there are no other rifles that a person can buy off the shelf and offer the accuracy. That is something that rings true, just look at a few forums.
As was stated earlier, I could really care less what you may dislike about Savages, because they perform and that is all that i care about. Accuracy is the bottom line. All else is replaceable And at the cost, it is an absolute no brainer for the buyers of these firearms. It is not a wonder that they have become so extremely popular worldwide. Those are facts that biases simply pale against.

I am a savage fan. I have 2 and I’m happy with both.

Why people would ever buy a Remington is beyond me. I will never buy a gun that has a chance of firing when I open the bolt. I will never go shooting with some one that has one and I will try my best to get people to buy other rifles.

My Savage is accurate. It shoots better then I can I think. My best being ½” at 100 yards. Its just a cheap model 111 with out acutrigger.

 

[RonAKA]

Ron those pics were of my rifle and not my girl friends. My crown is good. I didn’t have hers around to take pics of. I’ll get some soon.

Oh, good. I thought my eyes were going on me...

 

[bozo699]

K0na_stinky,
Mike made some valid points, Now think about what you just said?I have several savages and like them very much, as Mike said a very versatile rifle, and for the money you cant beat them. Now for the Remington statement, not all remmy's have a crappy trigger system and they have made some very fine and accurate rifles,are they my favorite? absolutely not,but I have some nice ones that are not for sale. And actually savage has one of the crappiest triggers ever, and remingtons have a very good trigger that is midifiable. I am very opinionated but it is a very bad trait, now you are young enough to still be open minded and I think you should be because Savage is not the ONLY rifle made!
Wayne.

 

[K0na_stinky]

K0na_stinky,
Mike made some valid points, Now think about what you just said?I have several savages and like them very much, as Mike said a very versatile rifle, and for the money you cant beat them. Now for the Remington statement, not all remmy's have a crappy trigger system and they have made some very fine and accurate rifles,are they my favorite? absolutely not,but I have some nice ones that are not for sale. And actually savage has one of the crappiest triggers ever, and remingtons have a very good trigger that is midifiable. I am very opinionated but it is a very bad trait, now you are young enough to still be open minded and I think you should be because Savage is not the ONLY rifle made!
Wayne.

Where I shoot Remington’s aren’t aloud. The property owner saw a show on them and doesn’t really like them any more. Also I shoot with his daughter and he wants shooting to be as safe as it can be.

I don’t know what a good trigger is so I can’t say much in that department.

I also haven’t had any experience with a “nice” action.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I got a good chuckle out of that ford thing. ;D

 

[K0na_stinky]

Comments on the original question are still welcomed.

I’m highly confused and that stopped my from buying my rifle today. I guess I’ll just have to sit back and read. Get a lot more info that way.

Thanks.

 

[McKinneyMike]

There are a great many good rifles on the market. It all boils down to what a person wants for now and the future. I would not worry about the Remington trigger issues either. The show that was shown recently is a lot of anti-gun BS as far as I am concerned. I like Savages and what they offer. I own a few older Remington's as well, but I am just not into the newest offerings that they have on the market.
If I wanted a Remington to build upon, I would simply go with a custom action from the start from one of the many great offerings on the market. But that is not a production gun and the cost is at least 4X a Savage, if not closer to 6 to 8X the average Savage rifle. A new Rifle Basics trigger or a Sharp Shooter Supply trigger is a $100.00 and after that you will spend a great deal of money to find a better shooting rifle for 2X the cost.
The Savages are extremely easy to change barrels without the need of a gunsmith. You can of course us a great smith to build a Savage, but it is not a requirement to get a great after market pre-fit barrel. You can simply buy a Savage action that suits your needs, an after market pre-fit barrel from Shilen, Pac-Nor or others that offer them and have an outstanding rifle for probably around $900-$1300, the latter if you want a McMillian/Manners or other high quality after market stock. No wasted money buying a new rifle that you wanted to upgrade anyway.

 

[K0na_stinky]

There are a great many good rifles on the market. It all boils down to what a person wants for now and the future. I would not worry about the Remington trigger issues either. The show that was shown recently is a lot of anti-gun BS as far as I am concerned. I like Savages and what they offer. I own a few older Remington's as well, but I am just not into the newest offerings that they have on the market.
If I wanted a Remington to build upon, I would simply go with a custom action from the start from one of the many great offerings on the market. But that is not a production gun and the cost is at least 4X a Savage, if not closer to 6 to 8X the average Savage rifle. A new Rifle Basics trigger or a Sharp Shooter Supply trigger is a $100.00 and after that you will spend a great deal of money to find a better shooting rifle for 2X the cost.
The Savages are extremely easy to change barrels without the need of a gunsmith. You can of course us a great smith to build a Savage, but it is not a requirement to get a great after market pre-fit barrel. You can simply buy a Savage action that suits your needs, an after market pre-fit barrel from Shilen, Pac-Nor or others that offer them and have an outstanding rifle for probably around $900-$1300, the latter if you want a McMillian/Manners or other high quality after market stock. No wasted money buying a new rifle that you wanted to upgrade anyway.

So I would be good off getting a Savage model 12 and later I can decide weather or not it needs changes. I felt the action on one and I thought its pretty good. But I have only used a nice gun a few times. It was a high end Sako.

I’m not at the point that I feel comfortable building a rifle. Maybe with more reading and the help of you guys I will decide to build one. That won’t be until spring now tho. So I have lots of time to learn.

Thanks every one.

I don’t think this thread needs any more posts.

Thanks.

 

[jonbearman]

Cnbc has been caught in lie after lie.Do not base anything you do on a baseless news service out to destroy the largest firearms company out there.I own lots of remingtons,could they malfunction,probably.They are effectively manual machines made by humans.With that said,anything can happen,failures do occur.But to shut out remington owners from using your range is an insult to anyone with even average intelligence.I cant believe what garbage I am reading ,all out of shear ignorance of how the real world works.There is nothing manufactured in this world that is 100% reliable.So think before you speak.I love my remingtons and I love my savages as well.I would go savage now do to quality control issues at the bigger gun companys.At least the savage is cheap to modify and fun to work on.They are almost a no brainer to install a barrel on unlike anything else that has ever been built.The barrel nut is fantastic.Now they are doing it for remingtons(barrel nut) When it becomes more affordable then an average guy can rebarrel your own remington.All you have to do on an older remington is replace the trigger with a top quality unit.Problem solved. Just remember the news media is all controlled by libs who fantasize on ruling the world with redundant laws that people refuse to follow because they are counterproductive to a reasonable life style.

 

[RonAKA]

You have not mentioned what cartridge you would be going for? That may narrow down your choices.

Also, have you checked prices? The Savage LRPV is not exactly cheap here in Canada -- $1240 at Wholesale Sports. The CZ in comparison is about $1000. The Tikka Varmint $1060. Tikka has a Super Varmint model, but it is $1700, and I would suggest butt ugly. For that price you can buy a classy looking Cooper Varmint.

That said the Savage is the heaviest gun, and has the best stock trigger, and would suggest will probably be the most accurate.