Polygonal rifling??/

[msinc]

I have had mixed results with polygonal rifling and would like to hear some experiences. Here is mine...in 1991 I built a 700 with a polygonal rifled barrel in 308win 1 in 10 twist. It was the sweetest shooting rifle I ever owned. I let a local guy talk me out of it {paying way more than I had in it helped} in 1994 and have been trying to build something I like as much as that one ever since. I have since tried another polygonal barrel and it fouls so bad so quick that I spend more time cleaning it than shooting it. When clean she shoots great. I understand that one possible issue with polygonal rifling is that it is hard to get a good smooth bore because they are difficult to lead lap??? That certainly would explain this barrel, and it even looks a little rough inside {borescope.} But the last one I had was a perfect mirror smooth bore that didnt foul and was very easy to clean. What gives??? Should I try again or go with something else?? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[dennisinaz]

I have shot several Robar tactical rifles with Schneider polygon barrels and they cleaned up easier than a standard button barrel I thought. I don't think anybody makes a better 308 caliber poly barrel than Gary Schneider.

I-10 twist is pretty tight for a 308. Unless you are shooting 210s etc, I would use a more reasonable twist. 1-12 works on the 180s and under and 1-11 works pretty good on most everything else. It has been my experience that the tighter the twist, the more likely they are to foul.

 

[mikecr]

Why do you think any of them were actually polygonal?

 

[msinc]

I have shot several Robar tactical rifles with Schneider polygon barrels and they cleaned up easier than a standard button barrel I thought. I don't think anybody makes a better 308 caliber poly barrel than Gary Schneider.

I-10 twist is pretty tight for a 308. Unless you are shooting 210s etc, I would use a more reasonable twist. 1-12 works on the 180s and under and 1-11 works pretty good on most everything else. It has been my experience that the tighter the twist, the more likely they are to foul.

Maybe I should try a Schnieder barrel. You're right, I could lighten up on the twist. Before I was shooting heavier bullets. Also, I am building a 7mm-08 this time too. When I used the term "foul" I am talking about copper. My first poly barrel used to get some copper smear in the bore but it was very light and it only did it after I shot the rifle too many rounds without cleaning it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Mickey D]

Your post reminds me of a deer rifle I had 25+ years ago. 270 whby mg which would shoot hand loads into 1 hole at 100 yds. But after 8 or so shots I had to clean the barrel. Then shoot 1 fouling shot then it was ready.
I realy like Rock barrels. They are easy to keep clean,and Mike Rock takes pride in his work.But there are many good makers out there.
Good luck with your prodject,and post pics when you finish.
Mickey

 

[msinc]

I sure will post pictures and good or bad targets too. I have ordered a Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel and was told 9 weeks. I doubt I will wait that long until I find another good quality barrel and go for it. I might even build a 260 Remington caliber rifle while waiting on the Pac-Nor just to see what all the hype is about. Alot of guys really like that caliber and I am sure there is a good reason. Long range accurate rifles are one of those things...you can never have too many. I have an extra 700 short action and stock, even got an extra Mark 4 scope. It's startin' to look like it would be dumb not to!! I hate waiting for things.

 

[mikecr]

I hold both Pacnor & Schneider 'polygonal' barrels, and neither actually seem so.
I see no difference between them and normal rifling from other makers.
So I'm not sure about the basis of their designations.

Again, how do you know they're polygonal?

 

[watercam]

If you have a bore scope it is pretty obvious. If you use a magnifying glass look at the rifling profile at the muzzle - polygonal rifling has sloped sides a la a trapezoid.
For myself, I have had several of each type and the odd-numbered groove numbers plus polygonal shape shoot and clean well for me even with multiple hundreds of rounds between cleanings for Long Range and Palma shooting.

 

[mikecr]

Far as I know, there is no 'Trapezoidagon', and polygon shaping usually ends with 'agon'.
Pretty sure polygonal bores are charactorized as having 'sides' rather than 'lands', and their advantage is different than that of radiused(or not) rifling.

I think what we see/buy is slightly radiused rifling, coined as polygonal.
Whether radiused, canted, or merely formed with worn buttons, and marketed -with a deceptive stretch, as polygonal..

I like radiused rifling, and haven't had issue with it. But I don't see how we could compare it to actual polygonal. We do not see any of the benefits of polygonal bores.

 

[arizonajake]

I have a 26" Pac Nor polygon bore barrel in .260 Rem in my Tikka M595 hunting rifle. It produces 1.5 inch groups at 300 meters with either Hornady 129 gr. SSTs or Nosler 130 gr. Accubonds with 47.0 grains of H4831 powder. The only quirk this barrel has is that it shoots better with loads at or near maximum. It does not shoot precisely with light loads.

 

[msinc]

Thanks for the tip about lighter loads...I will try it both ways when I get the rifle done. As to the guy that has twice asked "How do you know it's polygonal??"
The same way I know I drive a Toyota Tundra, drink yellow beer and have two kids....not real sure what you're gettign at. Do you actually think I am that stupid to not know or is there some ultra top secret government agency out there switching barrels to ruin peoples fun we dont know about?????

 

[mikecr]

Well msinc, you've generalized a fouling issue with polygonal barrels, but didn't even mention the specific brand.. Was it a Toyota barrel?
You think there is a universal standard to barrels & rifling marketed as polygonal, that somehow applies to ALL of us?

You haven't actually recieved an answer to "What gives???" because you shoe-horned a general problem into a very narrow and unknown condition.
For all we know, you don't clean barrels as well as making babys or beer drinking.
We don't know what the barrel is, or who you bought it from, who finished the barrel, about the break-in, or the shot count, or the load/bullets fired through it, at what rate,,,

And I'm left to assume you haven't answered my questions, because YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

[msinc]

If this post bothers you this bad your solution is simple...dont read it or reply to it.

 

[Jayman_10x]

Well msinc, you've generalized a fouling issue with polygonal barrels, but didn't even mention the specific brand.. Was it a Toyota barrel?
You think there is a universal standard to barrels & rifling marketed as polygonal, that somehow applies to ALL of us?

You haven't actually recieved an answer to "What gives???" because you shoe-horned a general problem into a very narrow and unknown condition.
For all we know, you don't clean barrels as well as making babys or beer drinking.
We don't know what the barrel is, or who you bought it from, who finished the barrel, about the break-in, or the shot count, or the load/bullets fired through it, at what rate,,,

And I'm left to assume you haven't answered my questions, because YOU DON'T KNOW.

mikecr,

Go away.

 

[Jayman_10x]

I sure will post pictures and good or bad targets too. I have ordered a Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel and was told 9 weeks. I doubt I will wait that long until I find another good quality barrel and go for it. I might even build a 260 Remington caliber rifle while waiting on the Pac-Nor just to see what all the hype is about. Alot of guys really like that caliber and I am sure there is a good reason. Long range accurate rifles are one of those things...you can never have too many. I have an extra 700 short action and stock, even got an extra Mark 4 scope. It's startin' to look like it would be dumb not to!! I hate waiting for things.

msinc,

Not to deviate from your OP, but Robert Whitbey sells 6.5mm cal. Bartlein blanks on this site. Might want to check in with him to see what he has in stock. I realize Bartlein's are not necessarily what you were looking at but their reputation is impeccible and that would get you going on the 260 Rem build and "hold you over" until the Pac-Nor arrives. I've never had a Pac-Nor, hear great things of course, but as far as poly rifled barrels go Schneider is fantastic.

BTW - if you go with a 260 Rem, try to narrow down the bullet you want to primarily use (i.e. 120's, or 140's, etc.). Barrel twist on this caliber can be a little sensitive if shooting past 600 yards. For example if you plan to use primarily 140's for long range I'd go with a 1:8.5 twist, expecialy if shooting at/near max. loads. This will stabilize the bullet, without overstabilizing it at the same time. On my 260 Rem I have a 1:8 with a 21.5" barrel (Broughton 5C). With that length I don't believe I get enough velocity to overstabilize the bullet past 600 yards. None of my observations has indicated such.

Jason

 

[CJ6]

You mention having different (Poly) barrels. Were they from the same maker ? I have a LW (Poly) and it shoots (for it's purpose)and cleans as well as the Harts and Kriegers I have.

 

[msinc]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen, I am thinking more and more of doing a 260, I like the caliber more each time I research it. I will not be shooting it past 600 yards so will opt for the correct twist. I will contact the fellow mentioned to see what he has. I am definately not against anything Bartlein makes. I have barreled over 50 rifles in the last 10 years or so, both for myself as well as customers and have used all different brands. I really dont think anyone is making bad barrels. I would not be afraid of any U.S. made custom barrel maker so I am not locked into any one brand or type of rifling. One of my previous barrels, the one that shot so well was made by Harris-McMillan and I got it from Brownell's in 1991. The other, the one that fouls so quick is a Wes Harris Barrel Works barrel purchased in 2001. Best I can tell it's the same guy so I was hoping they would work about the same. Personally, I have had the best overall luck with Krieger, I just wanted to take one more stab at polygonal rifling.

 

[JRS]

When polygon barrels and Schneider are mentioned, one needs to look no further than some of the names using them: USMC, Dan Dowling, Kenny Jarrett & ROBAR to name a few. David Tubb used only Schneider barrels for many years.

 

[msinc]

Well I finally got this barrel from Pac-Nor...it is not polygonal rifling at all. Even though that is what I ordered and paid for and that's what is on the invoice. The rifling in this barrel is nothing more than "6R" or canted land six groove. It looks exactly like my Obermeyer 5R but with one more land. Everything else about it looks fine and I will give it a try...might still be the best shooter I own, just not quite what I expected.

 

[mikecr]

As to the guy that has twice asked "How do you know it's polygonal??"
The same way I know I drive a Toyota Tundra, drink yellow beer and have two kids....not real sure what you're gettign at. Do you actually think I am that stupid to not know or is there some ultra top secret government agency out there switching barrels to ruin peoples fun we dont know about?????

You know,, there was a point here where I was trying to help you.
But it appears you just have a different way of learning..