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Pierced Primer question working up a load

i more less do the same as you have done. i would take your 1.8220 and seat it .002 more (1.82) and check for land marks. keep doing this until no marks appear. the number between marks and no marks is what i call on lands or my zero.....

i use steel wool to polish the bullet each time and use a sized case that has no primer or powder also watch how you load and unload the round so you don't get unwanted marks

Ron
 
"Once fired cases" Did you full length resize them? Primer piercing is not unusual if you pushed the shoulder back too far. It creates excess headspace. The second firing should be OK, if this is the cause of your problem.
 
Thanks for all the info! I did FL when they were new and I actually loaded them hot for the Berger 80gr that I used. I had no primers that looked like the ones after they were fire formed and shot. All i did after fire forming was clean the case, clean the neck, clean the primer pocket and neck size the case. I will see what happens today and then after I get my bolt back from Greg. Today I will shoot loads starting at 25.9gr to 29.2gr and check out my velocity.

I sort of ruled out the firing pin since this is a new rifle with only 100 rounds initially fired prior to these cases. The only thing I did do was remover the ejector from the bolt. You think this might be my issue?
 
The only thing I did do was remover the ejector from the bolt. You think this might be my issue?

No, but it does remove one potential tell-tale for reading pressure signs.

Were the ejector still present, you can see an impression the ejector makes on the case head as you begin to get into pressures that are too high. Once you get your bolt back from Greg you amy want to put the ejector back in for a while when you start confirming your loads again, if only to provide more information for your observations.

I think you'll find that, with the bushed bolt & slightly smaller firing pin tip your primer piercing problems will go away even at loads beyond 30.5 grains.

I also suggest you try seating your bullets deeper in increments of .010" too as you may find a point at which they shoot better than soft-seated or on the lands. This not only improves your accuracy but also gives you a margin of safety when shooting in higher-than-normal temperatures, or if you need to clear your rifle for some reason (most often shooting in competition when a cease-fire is called!) without ending up with an action full of powder grains.

One last question - why did you FL size your cases before shooting them for the first time?

Generally that's not needed, and in fact can be a bad idea if you don't yet know what your chamber's headspace is. New brass can be too short for some chambers & if resized may inadvertently have the shoulder pushed back even further which leads to case stretch at best or poor ignition or mis-fires at worst because of weak FP impact or the FP pushing the cartridge forward in the chamber without igniting the primer.

With new cases I run necks over an expander mandrel to even out little dings that happen in shipping (just to make sure they're round) then run a VLD chamfering tool into the necks a little just to take the sharp edge off before tumble-cleaning (for peace of mind & to remove the little brass chips from the chamfering tool) before priming & loading.

Other brass prep operations (trimming to consistent length, primer flash hole uniforming and/or inside de-burring, etc.) all happen after the first firing when I know the cases fit my chamber(s) better.
 
spclark,

It was suggested to me on another post to FL size virgin brass. I usually only expand the neck and then chamfer and deburr then neck size and them prime and load. I made sure that the FL die would not bump the neck down:) After going to the range to day, I did send my bolt to Greg and hopefully I can get it back by next Thursday.

Today I shot 12 different loads starting at 25.9gr of Varget to 29.2gr in increments of 0.3gr. I had no pierced primers nor noticeable craters, which is a good sign. I did have some hot loads from the previous batch which I have posted pictures and did have pierced primers again. Here is a pic of my 3 shot group from 100 yards. Left to right, top to bottom... Top left target is 25.9gr and the bottom right is 29.2gr. It was around 59F and winds from 10-18mph from 9 o'clock -7 0'clock. I did shoot 4 sighters before I started the round robin. I didn't clean the barrel either until I was done ;D

94cd1c93.jpg
 
Hey Scotty,

if you do pierce primers it would pay to disassemble the bolt before firing the next round and check that you don't have primer fragments that can cause the firing pin to jam.
 
6BRinNZ,

I did take apart the bolt prior to going out to the range and cleaned everything. I took a look at the firing pin per another post and didn't see any issues with the firing pin. I didn't take the bolt apart after shooing yesterday though. I mailed my bolt to Greg.
 
From your targets (not knowing which load is which) I like the top & bottom row 3rd from left & would use those loads to test different seating depths in the next round.

Give us all a follow-up report on your findings once you get you bolt back & have had a chance to get back out to the range.

(Those hot loads will probably work fine too once you get your bushed bolt back.)
 
I will follow up... The loads are from lowest starting at the top left. Going from left to right and top to bottom, ending with the hottest load onthe bottom right.

25.9 to 29.2 in increments of 0.3.
 
After running your targets thru an exercise I like to do when I'm running tests, I think the group at the far right center row is better than the one in the top row 3rd from left.

Those are the Caldwell 5.5" targets? If so, the white circles in this attachment are 1/2" dia. on the outside. Your best groups are 28.0 & 28.9 grains, the latter just over 1/2 MOA which for a factory rifle is pretty darn good.
 

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Spclark,

Thoses are the Caldwell 5.5. I'm hoping I get my bolt back from Greg by Thursday. This way I can load more and experiment with seating depth. The funny thing is, after I shot my sighters and all my other hot loads I had left... Around 8, I had two left that were loaded at 25.9 and I shot those on my sighter target and put them in the same hole. At least I know that I don't have to clean as often. I was goin to clean after the first round of twelve targets, but I decided to see if my accuracy would decrease or not because I have a factory barrel. I have read that on factory you should clean every 15-20 shots. With a custom barrel you can go longer without cleaning. I shot 50 rounds without cleaning, would this hurt a factory barrel?
 
i would go with the 1st 3 in row 3(if no scope adjustments were made)....28.3 / 28.6 / 28.9 you have .6 gn difference in the load and the impact point is about the same for all 3. in this area you could get away with temp change and if your loads end up off by + / - .1 gn you will still be on target

load the 28.6 change seating depth and try it at longer yardage

Ron
 
Just my eyeball of them, but I would investigate loads around targets 7 & 8. I'm not seeing much if any rise in the last three targets of the middle row.
 
I did not make any scope adjustments at all. I understand the theory of using the 1st 3 in the third row, but I don't understand when people talk about vertical. So the last 3 in the middle row would be the best to work from?
 
Scotty, that would be my rookie opinion. What you are looking for is an increase in powder charge, an increase in velocity, but no increase in elevation. Oversimplified, but you are looking for a sweet spot where the barrel has vibrated to a lower position for a faster bullet, so the POI does not rise as the velocity rises. The idea is to make the load somewhat insensitive to velocity variations up or down, by small amounts.

Not sure what distance you are shooting at, but further is better. It exaggerates the effect of velocity variations. In this exercise you ignore the side to side spread, and only consider the vertical. I also noted that it was quite windy the day you shot, so that would account for quite a bit of the side spread.
 
RonAKA,

I understand now:). It was pretty windy around 10-18+. Also I was shooting from 100yards out. I will play around with some of the loads that you and others suggest an see what works well in my rifle. After, I will try the 200 yard and then 600 yard... All before it gets too cold:)
 
Well I got my bolt back from Greg and went out to the range to test some 28.0gr and 28.9gr of Varget. I wasn't really prepared but I will end up re-shooting these. I only had one sighter and didn't have my scope adjusted right so I changed it after shooting my first three targets. I had 5 targets for 28.0 and 28.9. 3 loaded 0.0, 0.10, 0.20, 0.30 and 0.40 off the lands. I shot these round robin again. I will just sort of show the ones worth showing. The mirage was a killer at times, but I think I will work on these two loads. I still want to work up the loads when I was piercing the primers, and hopefully I will if it doesn't get too cold. I will do a 5 shot group hopefully next week ???

28.0gr 0.000 off the lands (the 1st shot was my sighter and I adjusted my scope before I shot the last two.
OT280-0000.jpg


28.0gr 0.030 off the lands
OT280-0030.jpg


28.0gr 0.040 off the lands
OT280-0040.jpg
 
Well compared to the primers I shot last Thursday, today seems like the primers were smoother when running your finger tips over them. I'm curious to see when I try loading up some 30.5gr of Varget for next week.
 

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