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over pressure signs

I would like to know exactly what to look for in over pressure signs. Pics of extractor marks and primmer damage would be great. Also, I am reading alot about pierced primmers. I have not encountered this yet but would like to know how dangerous it is, ie, can it kill you? So far I am keeping all my loads 1gr under book rec. However, I know most here load as hot as possible for velocity. I am using Fed 205M primmers and have heard the cups are thin. How will I know when I have reached the max load without blowing my gun up or going blind? Sorry about the language but last year I had a NEW Smith and Wesson 1911 45 blow up on me on factory rounds. It cracked the slide and blew the grips off and about 10 other things came apart in my hands. After the metal was removed from my eye and the burns healed I am trying to avoid all similar experiences. NOTE: Smith and Wesson wanted nothing to do with it and did not even replace my gun!!! It took them 2 months for them to respond and they blamed it on the ammo!! In short, their support sucked and I would not recommend buying a gun through them after seeing how they treated me. They said what happened was a "common" thing. Anyway, help with the above would be great! I'm shooting 6BR in a target Savage gun.
jer
 
Man, that is pathetic. So let me get this straight. It is "normal" for a new pistol to blow up shooting factory ammo???
Something very wrong with that picture. I just simply don't think so. Normal modern pistols don't blow up using factory ammo unless there was something wrong with the ammo. Bill
 
Bill, among other things I know how to weld, machine, and generally know how to build things out of metal. When I spoke to the people in their shop I mentioned the possibility of there being a microscopic fracture in the steel they may have missed. I was told "it is impossible for there to be a fracture in our forgings". I have spoke to many people about it and was told it is very hard to believe it could have been the ammo. You can't get 45 ammo to do that was the general response. Smith's 1911 pistols are one of the only designs that have a cut out directly behind the external extractor in the slide. The crack happened in the cut outright where you would expect a weak spot to be. When I brought this up they freaked out and denied everything. Do yourself a favor and buy Kimber or Springfield!! In any event it was a very painful and long process that yielded nothing. Smith and Wesson would not accept responsibility or help me out. I should have sued, thats what I get for being a nice guy.
jer
 
favload said:
I should have sued; that's what I get for being a nice guy.
It's the product of a litigious system. Your personal injury precluded S&W's ability to respond without admitting liability.

You're in lawyer-land, and it may not be too late to recover.
.
 
I've been nosing around this forum for a little while, soaking up info on rifle shooting. Seems like a nice place. I've been a pistol shooter for quite a while - maybe I can share some experience here...

Unfortunately, this actually does sound quite a bit more like a pressure issue rather than a simple cracked slide. .45 ACP is an extremely low pressure cartridge, and a slide failure in the area you describe is not going to result in the catastrophic failure you experienced. I've seen .45s run for years and thousands of rounds with cracked slides, depending on the crack - even in relatively high stress areas like breechfaces.

What you're describing is the result of a very high pressure situation - the base of the case blows out where its unsupported at the bottom, typically blowing off the base pad of the magazine and shooting the contents of the mag out the bottom,ammo, mag spring, follower, etc), cracking or blowing out grips, breaking trigger parts, possibly breaking sear/hammer/disconnector, etc. If pressure is high enough, it can blow out the barrel hood, as well, and do all sorts of other bad things. High pressure situations also cause other problems - and one of those is exceeding the strength of various parts, notably slides. I suspect the crack in your slide resulted from the high pressure round.

You most definitely can blow a gun up with .45 ammo. Even with factory ammo. .45 is generally loaded with fast to medium-fast pistol powder, and the case is capable of taking a double or even triple charge of powder. With faster powders, a triple charge won't even be compressed!

Another issue that has come to light is that a lot of factory ammo is vulnerable to bullet setback - especially with factory weight or heavier recoil springs,16# is standard in a 1911 for most factories). This becomes especially visible if you've loaded a particular round more than once,say, you shoot a string, unload the gun, and take the round that was in the chamber and put it back in the magazine, and load it again). I've noticed this visibly, myself, with factory .40 S&W ammo. Several police departments have recently blown up Glock 21 pistols,in .45 ACP) due to this issue, as well. Bullet setback rapidly ramps up the pressure in these pistol cartridges - a tenth of an image can be very very bad.

Obviously, reloaders need to be diligent when reloading this cartridge!

That said... S&W's response is a bit odd. This is not a common situation. "Impossible" to have a crack is wrong - in fact, its far more likely to have failed castings with voids or cracks than forged or barstock parts, so... You're definitely receiving a "lawyer response" from them, and that stinks. But, I don't think this is their fault from your description - unfortunately, I do think it was your ammo. Who made *that*??

I've seen all kinds of defects with factory ammunition, BTW. Cases too long, so they won't chamber. Powder missing. No bullet pull,setback!). No flash hole. Defective powder or primer. You name it...

There's a lot of info on this forum, and in the various loading manuals about monitoring rifle rounds for pressure problems. If you pay attention - and are careful with your reloading - you shouldn't even experience the detonation type of problem you had with your .45 in a rifle. The pressure changes should be more gradual than that...

BTW - I'm extremely glad you're OK! How'd you get stuff in your eyes? Did it make it around your glasses?
 
I TIG welded up a Glock 40 SW and then re cut the feed ramp and chamber to give full case support.

The pistol can now shoot a 44 mag max load: 15.5 gr 800X 200gr, but the recoil is intolerable.
 

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I'm afraid it was S&W's problem Springfield has the same problem. On a brand new XD 45 the gun blew up on the 13th round put in it. It fired without going to full battery and cracked the grip bent the firing pin and blew the extractor off as well as injuring the shooter.

I don't know where their heads are,up their A's)but with the exception of Kimber and Ruger all the others are cutting corrnersl to save a buck and get crap out the door.

It's time we stop purchasing, S&W, Springfield and Remington firearms till they get their act together and their heads out of you know where.
 

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