No shoulder bump on my Lee press

[dellet]

You can see that same shiny mark on this piece of brass, then a void where the die did not contact, then scuffing from the die.

I would compare that shiny ring at the top of the shoulder, where it marked the inked case, with a fired unsized piece of brass. I would not be surprised if the opposite is happening. you might actually be crushing the shoulder.causing it to expand.

You may have a die or chamber problem. not having full contact with the case wall in the sizing die should be a big flag. So compare the diameters of fired and sized and un-fired in those places where there is contact.

 

[bozo699]

You can see that same shiny mark on this piece of brass, then a void where the die did not contact, then scuffing from the die.

I would compare that shiny ring at the top of the shoulder, where it marked the inked case, with a fired unsized piece of brass. I would not be surprised if the opposite is happening. you might actually be crushing the shoulder.causing it to expand.

You may have a die or chamber problem. not having full contact with the case wall in the sizing die should be a big flag. So compare the diameters of fired and sized and un-fired in those places where there is contact.

Dellet,
I see what your seeing and you may have something there also it looks to me that the die is not sizing from above the .200 line down I see no die contact or not much.
Wayne

 

[dellet]

Dellet,
I see what your seeing and you may have something there also it looks to me that the die is not sizing from above the .200 line down I see no die contact or not much.
Wayne

If click on the photo and expand, it almost looks like a bulge in the case where it is scuffed.

It would be interesting to see the case body on a straight edge.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Find someone close to you that has a Rockchucker press and screw your die down in it for cam-over and see if that makes a difference.

 

[bozo699]

Dellet,
I see what I believe your seeing and I believe it to be a optical illusion from light scuffing to heavy and back to light. I simply don’t think his die is sizing the base of his cases it’s a common problem. He mentioned he bumped the shoulder .0045 and it still didn’t fit and from his photos the sharpie wasn’t scuffed on the shoulder if it was touching it would have been scuffed some when extracted
Wayne

 

[MarkO76]

Mark,
I’m completely confused is Lapua making 6Bra brass?…. Or are you having to ff 6br brass to form the 6bra?…. If your shooting a bra I’m assuming your shooting benchrest if so that press is not near good enough it’s aluminum $40 press. If you like Lee buy there big cast iron press I like the rcbs rock chucker for my 6 Dasher and other variants I really like the Harrells br press. If your screwing your die all the way and there’s still a gap and from what I read there is it needs to go further even if you have to put the lock nut on the bottom side as someone else mentioned. But seriously that press is not a precision built press I would keep it for depriming only
Wayne

It's Lapua 6BR brass ff to BRA. Just friendly local competitions, no REAL comps. I do plan on buying a better press, but I want to be 100% sure that this IS what the issue is. I tried putting the die in without even using the lock nut on the die, but I get the same result, still has a gap.

One other thing as several bave mentioned your base might not being sized when you open the bolt with the brass that’s not fitting easily is there a click sound at the top of your bolt lift when primary extraction is taking place?
Wayne

There is a click at the top of the bolt, however, when looking at the pictures from when I inked the case, the ink is mainly rubbed off around the shoulder. I would think if the issue is at the base, from the press not going far enough up, that's where the ink would be rubbed off, instead of the shoulder.

 

[Metal God]

If there is still a gap of .003 and the case barely chambers then that extra .003 is what you need to chamber your round freely so screw it down more . Either the case will be sized more or you snap your press in half . Both results will resolve the issue haha .

I think Dellet pointing out the scratches is worth noting . Those scratches should not be on the case either after firing or sizing so there's that to figure out for sure . What lube are you using , sorry If I missed that earlier ? If you say Oneshot YOUR FIRED !!! lol . Use imperial , unique or Lanolin , regardless of what you use it needs to slip in and out relatively easily . If it seems kinda hard to size the case ( almost like they want to stick) then there's not enough lube or the wrong lube .

 

[bozo699]

T

It's Lapua 6BR brass ff to BRA. Just friendly local competitions, no REAL comps. I do plan on buying a better press, but I want to be 100% sure that this IS what the issue is. I tried putting the die in without even using the lock nut on the die, but I get the same result, still has a gap.

There is a click at the top of the bolt, however, when looking at the pictures from when I inked the case, the ink is mainly rubbed off around the shoulder. I would think if the issue is at the base, from the press not going far enough up, that's where the ink would be rubbed off, instead of the shoulder.

The only thing I know of that will give you that click is it’s not sizing the .200 line. Just for shits n giggles do as was suggested early in and take any .308 family f/l die and use it to size the base, use it first then size your case with your bra die and I’ll bet it fits nicely
Wayne

 

[dellet]

Dellet,
I see what I believe your seeing and I believe it to be a optical illusion from light scuffing to heavy and back to light. I simply don’t think his die is sizing the base of his cases it’s a common problem. He mentioned he bumped the shoulder .0045 and it still didn’t fit and from his photos the sharpie wasn’t scuffed on the shoulder if it was touching it would have been scuffed some when extracted
Wayne

Hard to say, but he's using a .40 cal case as a comparator body, So no way to tell if he is moving the shoulder or crushing it.

This was the basis for our Mr. Guffey's arguments.You can reform the complete shoulder, change the position of it on the case, essentially creating a new one. But if you are bumping the shoulder back What part of the shoulder is moving back?

That's why the diameters need to be measured before and after sizing.

If he can't get the shell holder to the die base, one of two things are happening. The case fully conforms to the dimensions of the die, and something else has to give, crush the case.

Or not enough lube for the leverage available.

I would probably try some vegetable oil and see what happens to the gap between die and shell holder.

Maybe a mixed boxed die and it's a neck sizing die?

 

[bozo699]

P. You can setup your dial indicator and see just how much that little press is deflecting

 

[MarkO76]

If there is still a gap of .003 and the case barely chambers then that extra .003 is what you need to chamber your round freely so screw it down more . Either the case will be sized more or you snap your press in half . Both results will resolve the issue haha .

I think Dellet pointing out the scratches is worth noting . Those scratches should not be on the case either after firing or sizing so there's that to figure out for sure . What lube are you using , sorry If I missed that earlier ? If you say Oneshot YOUR FIRED !!! lol . Use imperial , unique or Lanolin , regardless of what you use it needs to slip in and out relatively easily . If it seems kinda hard to size the case ( almost like they want to stick) then there's not enough lube or the wrong lube .

I'm using Hornady Unique case lube.
I have screwed the die down past where the press cams over, it still maintains a gap.

 

[MarkO76]

If click on the photo and expand, it almost looks like a bulge in the case where it is scuffed.

It would be interesting to see the case body on a straight edge.

I measured the case diameter and got 0.4595 right below the shoulder, 0.4655 in the middle where the heavy scratches are, and 0.470 at the base, by the case head.

 

[Metal God]

Keep going , the die and shell holder need to touch to know you’ve sized the case down as much as possible .

 

[PigButtons]

Did you have the sharpie marked onto the neck as well? I can't tell from the photos. What I can tell is that the shoulder itself is not the problem since the area from where the shoulder starts to the neck is still black. What I see is that the case body from the shoulder to about 1/4" down is scraped off. As others have said, it could be that your compressing the shoulder has caused a bulge in the case just below the shoulder. BUT, I rather think because of the long section that is scraped that you have a brass hardening problem instead. The case has work hardened and is springing back more than your die can push it in. You will need to anneal before it will take the proper shape, no matter how good of a press you have.

 

[PigButtons]

Annealing doesn't have to be expensive, and though you will see all kinds of
"SCIENCE" about annealing, the best thing I've seen is Eric Cortina's video. Most of that science talk is by folks trying to sell annealing machines that cost thousands. Just my opinion. I Do mine with a propane torch and do it just before dark outside so i can see the color change clearly. As soon as the neck starts to glow I stop, no water cooling just air cooling. I have done just fine for 10 years and some of those first cases are still in use.

 

[sawcarver]

If the die is not touching the shell holder with no brass in it, here lies the problem.

 

[bozo699]

I measured the case diameter and got 0.4595 right below the shoulder, 0.4655 in the middle where the heavy scratches are, and 0.470 at the base, by the case head.
What is the measurement at the .200 line?
Wayne

 

[dellet]

I measured the case diameter and got 0.4595 right below the shoulder, 0.4655 in the middle where the heavy scratches are, and 0.470 at the base, by the case head.

Can you check those numbers again with a fired case, before and after sizing?

The other thought is to use a 9mm case instead of a 40. Looking at the chamber drawings the Datum line on the shoulder is .350" diameter. This would give a much better idea of how far the shoulder is moving and closer to the correct position.

Then you give an actual measurement that would have some meaning.

 

[bozo699]

Keep going , the die abd shell holder need to touch to know you’ve sized the down as much as possible .

I agree with you totally however he did state he bumped the shoulder .0045 if in fact that is the case that too far in my opinion but he’s definitely achieving shoulder bump going further would only induce more shoulder bump which he doesn’t want I’m betting the Wilson die for whatever reason is not sizing it at the .200 line if that’s the case he’s gonna have to use a .308 family body or f/l die that can size that base I’ve also used a 45acp if memory serves me correct . I only have two Wilson f/l dies but there both on par with Harrells and other semi customs but it doesn’t mean his are correct. From the pictures I personally don’t see any evidence that the base is being touched by the die it’s as shiny as brand new
Wayne

 

[sawcarver]

If the die wont screw down anymore get an extended shell holder.

If it's touching without brass in it but then not touching with brass in it then lube it up and push the handle down harder to make them come in contact