nightforce are old ones better

[canuck]

when I say "substandard" I mean for that price point. It isn't the glass, although it really isn't very good) as much as it is the coatings but then again that is one VERY important aspect. As a target scope they are great cause isn't most paper punching done in the middle of the day? The adjustments/reticles on the nightforce are outstanding, this is were the german stuff is lacking)?
If another scope becomes available with similar features of the nightforce but which actually has good glass I bet many many will kiss their nightforce scopes goodbye.

 

[mikecr]

I can think of no german scope I would want over a Leupold Mk4 or NF NXS.

I don't care how good their glass is.
I want externally adjustable sealed turrets in 1/4 to 1/8MOA, sunshades, flip-up scope covers, high power, second focal plane/low subtending crosshairs, and side focus.
And the weight and physical size of the scope also needs to be reasonable.

When scopes using german glass offer these things as well, then we'll have something to compare I guess.
Most people here,USA) don't hunt at night, and field function/features matter most for us.
When I look through a Swarovski, I am of course blown away by the glass. But then I crank up the power and note that the huge/and growing reticle would completely obscure my target! I go to crank the elevation and find a cheap cap covering cheap adjustments, and I really couldn't expect accurate clicks in MOA. And then, to top it off, I can't focus the thing in firing position..

No, there is just no comparison

 

[canuck]

A combination of these scopes would be a match made in heaven. Hopefully someone comes out with such a scope.If nightforce ever does get good glass I will buy several. As you stated everything else about them is fantastic which I fully agree with.

 

[chino1969]

This has been a very interesting and informative thread and has me doing research into IOR Valdada as a competitor against Nightforce for a possible future purchase.

I own Leupold Vari-X 111s 30 mm tubes with side focus, Sightron 30 mm tubes with side focus, Weavers, Burris, standard 1" Sightrons, a Tasco here and there, etc.

For my really good shooting benchrest quality rifles, I demand the best. Reading the info. on the Schott web site is impressive and informative with respect to the quality of their optics. Schott has been around since the 1880s, designs glass for satellites, telescopes, radiation, environments, etc. Clearly, they know their business.

Lou Baccino

 

[a1shooter]

OK. So what do you all suggest for a DPMS .308 cal that I intend to use for hunting-dusk, dawn, and everything in between, rain or shine, short to long range,50 to 500 yds) use at night for wild hogs that are tearing up the pasture and hay fields, and shoot paper as far as the old worn out eyes can see? As for as old being better, I agree except for the old eyes!

 

[7stwhunter]

OK. So what do you all suggest for a DPMS .308 cal that I intend to use for hunting-dusk, dawn, and everything in between, rain or shine, short to long range,50 to 500 yds) use at night for wild hogs that are tearing up the pasture and hay fields, and shoot paper as far as the old worn out eyes can see? As for as old being better, I agree except for the old eyes!

I would put a leupy MK4 4.5-14x50 on it personally.

 

[Eddie Harren]

So why did the USMC give up on the S&B?

 

[canuck]

OK. So what do you all suggest for a DPMS .308 cal that I intend to use for hunting-dusk, dawn, and everything in between, rain or shine, short to long range,50 to 500 yds) use at night for wild hogs that are tearing up the pasture and hay fields, and shoot paper as far as the old worn out eyes can see? As for as old being better, I agree except for the old eyes!

I would put a leupy MK4 4.5-14x50 on it personally.

Ya that leupold is a very fine scope .If you're on a budget it is really hard to beat the bushnell elites.However if I could only own one scope for those purposes you mentioned it would be the new swarovski 2.5-15.You can also usually specify first or second focal plane...I don't know what swarovski did but that new glass is incredible and an absolutely amazing amount of field of view.I have never seen a scope like it.My next hunting scope will definitely be the swarovski.
I decided to get into a bit of target so bought one target scope awhile back but wasn't that crazy about it. I inquired about the schmidt and bender 12.5-50 longrange just a few days ago . Apparently it is suppose to be available very soon, perhaps even weeks).I was told it has 1/8 moa adjustments with 75 moa vertical.

 

[Coopersrcool]

Wow I guess we all see things differently. I have a 5.5x22 and 8x32 Nightforce NXS. I have one zeiss conquest 6.5x20. two Leupolds Mk IV and VariX III plus a buch of others Nikon several T 36 Weavers, Sightron,Redfield, and Leupold fixed 24 and 36.
Nightforce wins hands down in all conditions and light! JMHO Kenny

 

[canuck]

Curious, are you affiliated with nightforce? I mean you have been a member for about a year and you haven't particpated in any firearms, reloading or other threads. The only threads you have participated in are to defend nightforce.
After researching a little more on the net and talking to others it would seem I am not alone by any means in my observations regarding the optical attributes of nightforce.
Yes, they are great for target but in low light situations ? Other premium and not so premium scopes trounce them in that regard..
Just look at this review accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/first-look-sightron-siii-8-32x56-scope/ - 35k, just copy and paste to read it). They compared the much much cheaper sightron 8-32 to the nightforce and optically it was found to be superior in almost every regard except perhaps resolution. They felt the nightforce had a very slight edge in resolution, funny cause that is the one area I said nightforce was not bad).

 

[jiwilliams]

Well I will give my .02

I own Meopta, Nightforce, IOR, Millet and have owned Bushnell 3200 and 4200, Leupold Mk4 and a few of the nitch scopes like Falcon Menace, SuperSniper, and Konus. Also some time with some Simmons and Mueller that were .22 scopes for me. Now that I think about it.. I've gone through a bunch of scopes!

My Nightforce is a 2001 8-32BR and it has great glass that is equal to the IOR 9-36. I LOVE my IOR glass but the scope has problems with retaining focus,parallax) under recoil. IOR is trying to fix the problem and has actually replaced one scope. Still, I like the IOR glass so much I have another 16x fixed on the way.

I found the glass on the Mark4 8-25 to be good but not WOW inspiring. It was on par with my Bushnell 4200 of which I've owned 2, a 6-24 tactical and a 8-32. The 3200 was a noticable step down. Of course the Leupold has its great warranty as a major plus.

The SuperSniper / Falcon and I'm playing with a Konus right now, are all somewhere close but not quite up to the 4200. Same of the Millet but it is a speciality scope the DMS1 and features are more critical than glass.

Meopta? My favorite piece of glass. Clear, bright with excellent contrast. This is the 4-16 with exposed turrets. I wish they made this in a higher magnification. The exposed Meopta turrets I have now sometimes seem to 'slip' and I'm afraid to tighten them any more.

I haven't had any real experience with the S&B or US Optics and they are out of my budget which currently keeps me to no more than $1500 for glass.

 

[canuck]

I don't doubt your experiences as I have looked through a few of those optics mentioned.I would almost bet nightforce used better glass 8 years ago or exercised better quality control. Many many companies let quality slip once they develope a reputation and this may be the case with nightforce.

 

[BZR]

I have to admit that I am not impressed with the optical quality of my Nightforce 12-42 BR. But the high magnification is very nice.

My friend shoots with a Swarovsky and that is impressive optical quality.

 

[Travelor]

I have one NightForce 12-42x56 NXS and another on order, so I have been watching this thread unfold with interest. To say I was a little concerned is putting it lightly even though I liked the quality of the first scope so well I was silling to pay retail for another new one.

I emailed NightForce and gave this thread to them and asked their response. Here is what I received this morning.

George,

I am not sure why Canuck is so adamant about putting Nightforce down and truly wish if he was that unhappy he would of contacted us to help resolve any possible flaw, we have not changed our specs or our QC except to improve it. We grade our glass to the same standard as when we first started in 1992 and feel we still have some of the finest glass on the market. Canuck sounds to be a well-informed and knowledgeable person regarding optics and we as a accompany value all comments, fortunately we receive far more positive than negative. We have always backed our product and if there is a problem, we will work to resolve it.

Sincerely



Brian Gearhart

Sales and Marketing

Nightforce Optics, Inc

1040 Hazen Lane, Orofino, Idaho 83544

,208)476-9814 b,208)476-9817 f

www.nightforceoptics.com bgearhart@nightforceoptics.com

 

[canuck]

I am glad to hear nightforce is following this thread .The reason I was so dissapointed in the nightforce was because I wanted to use it for target/ longrange hunting.When I first received it there were a few of my buddies that were extremely interested in this scope as they were looking for dual application scopes as well. None of us had even seen a nightforce up to this point. So we headed out to our shooting range to run it through some tests. We all agreed the build and features of the nightforce were outstanding with the exception that we wished it had a rubber ring around the eye piece to avoid getting cut with larger magnum calibers and we also wished it had an ocular quick focus, on the eye piece) .Next came the optical assessment.I won't bother rehashing all the optical short comings but it was obvious that it's only useful function would be target.
I think there would definitely be a market for a higher end nightforce with premium glass. As was suggested before you could offer this as an option.This could also be implimented almost immediately.Guys are willing to spend thousands on their rifles so I think they would be willing to spend an extra 500-1000 for a nightforce with truly good glass, I know I would in a heart beat). A lot of guys I know that like to shoot groups at the range, we don't compete but just enjoy shooting) are getting into longrange hunting so are looking for scopes with great features and great glass.If you do offer such a scope I can assure you I will definitely buy a couple and I know a few other that would buy atleast one a piece.

 

[DukeDuke]

I have one NightForce 12-42x56 NXS and another on order, so I have been watching this thread unfold with interest. To say I was a little concerned is putting it lightly even though I liked the quality of the first scope so well I was silling to pay retail for another new one.

I emailed NightForce and gave this thread to them and asked their response. Here is what I received this morning.

George,

I am not sure why Canuck is so adamant about putting Nightforce down and truly wish if he was that unhappy he would of contacted us to help resolve any possible flaw, we have not changed our specs or our QC except to improve it. We grade our glass to the same standard as when we first started in 1992 and feel we still have some of the finest glass on the market. Canuck sounds to be a well-informed and knowledgeable person regarding optics and we as a accompany value all comments, fortunately we receive far more positive than negative. We have always backed our product and if there is a problem, we will work to resolve it.

Sincerely



Brian Gearhart

Sales and Marketing

Nightforce Optics, Inc

1040 Hazen Lane, Orofino, Idaho 83544

,208)476-9814 b,208)476-9817 f

www.nightforceoptics.com bgearhart@nightforceoptics.com

I wonder if any company would publicly admit their product's quality has decreased over the years? My guess is no! Yea guys our scopes use to be great but lately we don't care that much so to make people believe they are still good, we jack up the price.
This is just an opinion on the reply from Nightforce! I love my nightforce scopes, in my eyes they are superior!

 

[12man]

Interesting forum, I have alot of Leupolds and a few Zeiss scopes very pleased with them. Been considering a N/F like the New 2.5 x10-32 for my Blackgun. My little experience with them is they are Heavy. They seem to have clear optics, haven't shot them much yet)Most of the BR shooters seem to be using them. I can understands Canucks wants/ needs IE. the rubber eye guard would be a good thing AND QUALITY GLASS was something ithought they had :, Very happy with my Zeiss & Leupold just looking for another QUALITY SCOPE Any reason to not get one? Thanks for the input

 

[DonM]

I have watched & read this thread with extreme interest. Why ?
Because I have been seriously considering buying a new Night-
force Scope. After a very careful review, after talking with
several very knowledgable shooters/hunters, after reading every-
thing I could find on several Internet Boards, I made my decision this afternoon. I ordered a new Nightforce 12 x 42 x 56
BR Model with the NP2DD Reticle. And, you know what ? I think it
is going to be a great improvement over the Leupold 36's that I
have been using for years. And, yes, I even have two that have
the Tucker Conversion. I figured out several years ago that one
could ask several shooters/hunters the same question and most of
the time get several different opinions. All I can say is that I
have seen way too many Nightforce Scopes do extremely well in
competitions. So, now I will have one,to start with) ! Perhaps
more in the future. Anyone want to buy some Leupolds 36's & 45's ? I may have some for sale !

 

[cdog]

Canuck, I am also from the great white north.
You really got my attention when you said you could get a new 12.5x50 S&B up here for less than a march or USO.
I guess from my time looking around at scopes I figured the new S&B to be a LOT of money, can you elaborate any on this?
Thanks in advance, and great thread,
Cdog.

 

[canuck]

When you consider both taxes,shipping and duty I believe the S&B is actually cheaper to obtain than a March or USO, atleast here in canada). "Wolverine supply" has the 12.5-50 X 56 listed at $2850 CD. As our dollar is currently about 18% below U.S.D this is certainly cheaper than I could obtain a March or USO. The problem is they don't have any but you can order it.I was told it is about a 6 month wait. The U.S is suppose to have them in as little as a few weeks. I guess we will see.