NICS background check

[shortgrass]

A number of states have waived this requirement for CCW holders Frank. Not sure how many or which ones, but can tell you the state of AZ. is one such state.

The STATE cannot waive it,, the federal government does! Not all states have the same requirements for issuing a conceled carry license. Only those states that have requirements APPROVED by NICS/ATFE can allow a transfer without a NICS background check when the purchaser holds a concealed carry license. This thread is a very good indication of the misunderstanding there is in federal firearms law. Go to the ATFE web site, it's pretty clear and in print!

 

[fdshuster]

Good information above. In PA. even a full-time, salaried police officer must go thru the background check when buying a handgun. So it sounds like PA is everybody, no exceptions.

 

[texwelder]

Next time you start to fill out the Form 4473, flip to the second page, look for Question #23. It clearly states that if the purchaser holds a valid concealed carry permit, the NICS is not required. This is when you tell the dealer that you have such a permit and he should ask for it. He should then fill in the information. As per the ATF guidelines, it is up to the individual dealer as to performing the NICS request on permit holders......some still do and some dont.

texwelder

 

[Mark S in NM]

Next time you start to fill out the Form 4473, flip to the second page, look for Question #23. It clearly states that if the purchaser holds a valid concealed carry permit, the NICS is not required. This is when you tell the dealer that you have such a permit and he should ask for it. He should then fill in the information. As per the ATF guidelines, it is up to the individual dealer as to performing the NICS request on permit holders......some still do and some dont.

texwelder

Shortgrass is correct, NM is an example of a state where a cc permit is not valid for transfer must run through NICs,

 

[shortgrass]

www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html

 

[fdshuster]

shortgrass: Great posting/ information. I just downloaded a copy for future reference. A big thank you.

 

[shortgrass]

Sorry we got off track here, AW. From the link I provided you can get all the info, straight from the "sourses" mouth, so to speak. The info from your friends (FFLs) is misconstrued. Evidently, an agent/inspector told him he could get sued in civil court for letting a 'dely' go as it should. Anyone can sue anybody at any time in this country. Example; a FFL sells a firearm and runs a NICS check. The response is "DELY". He records the NICS Transaction Number as he should. Three business days later, he had no further contact fron NICS about this transaction. So on the fouth day he allows the buyer to pick up the firearm. He completes the 4473. Five years later, that firearm is traced back to the FFL and from him to the buyer. 4473 on file shows when and why/how the firearm was transfered to the buyer. A member of the 'victims' family (the firearm was used to commit bodily harm) sues the seller for selling the firearm with a 'dely'. If the FFL followed the letter of the law, can document that he followed the letter of the law, the case would only continue if the judge was "liberal" and he was going to 'make' law instead of 'interpreting' the law as he should and ruled against the FFL. It would be thrown out on appeal. A good judge would have never allowed the suit to brought before him. A good lawyer would have the plaintiff paying the FFLs attorneys' fees. This is a tactic some use to frighten the little guy with a FFL. They don't believe the guy should have a license because he's a 'small time operation' or they just don't care for his 'operation', but they can't find a legit excuse to withdraw his license. Statements like "you could face a civil suit for transfering a 'delyed' firearm" are ment to intimidate an put 'the fear' into you. Follow the law 'to the letter'. Make a phone call or two, write letter asking for a 'written determination' for more info if need be. Anyone who holds a FFL should be well informed and know where to ask if they have questions. Ask six different agents/inspectors the same question and you may get two or more different answers! But sometimes, they all agree. Look into a Unique Personal Identification Number (thru the FBI) if you continually get "DELYED". What's phone call or two and a little research in the right places? Believe it or not, being a FFL holder requires 'work'!

 

[AWLEAPHART]

SHORTGRASS YOU’RE the MAN.
The only thing make the hairs rise on my neck is the fact that TWO different FFL holders told me the same thing and they didn’t know one another until I introduce them to each other.
I feel that the AFT is pushing this sue thing trying to stop FFL holders letting a delay gun go after the 3 to 4 days without a proceed.
One of these FFL holder is a good friend of mine that told me what the ATF said and he has a rifle of mine now in DELAY. I should get it on Thursday.

 

[shortgrass]

If that's the case, maybe someone should give the NRA a heads-up. ATFEs' job is to enforce the law. Only Congress can make laws. Might be a regional 'thing'. I've had a 07 Manufactuers FFL for more than just a few years and have never heard of such a thing. The 'word' I get is "do it the way the book says and pay attention to the new rulings. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to call us." I'd say they may be doing it to get the little guy out of the business, 'cause until the law changes it won't stand in an honest court. Same kind of 'tricks' were pulled during the Clinton administration. The Federal Government has NO role in civil law suits.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

You may be on the right track because both of these guys are small like just about work out of your house type thing.

 

[Glocksig]

The answer is simple, ATF is responsible for retrieving guns that were transferred and later denied. If the shops in their area won't transfer guns that were originally delayed then they don't have to worry about collecting guns up. In some states state police takes care of it but in others it falls to ATF. If you keep getting denied the best thing to do is get the unique # so NICS knows you're not the problem. Most likely the delay is someone with the same name as you who has a criminal history.

 

[zullo74]

When they first started doing this NICS b.s., I suddenly got 'delayed'. No criminal background, in the military, working on submarine nuclear propulsion (with a security clearance and federal background check to go with)... heck, hadn't even had a speeding ticket for a couple years.

As it was explained to me, the automated system flags that you have a background file. Doesn't matter what it is, or what it was for, but that you have a background file. Then some meatsack has to go and physically put eyes on that file to accept or decline the transaction. Meanwhile I'm sitting there waiting, fuming, 'delayed' because I at one time had a military security clearance. Joe Crackhead can go ahead and buy his TEC9 bullet hose - because he hasn't been caught by the po-po - yet - but for serving my country I get 'delayed'. As you can probably guess, that causes me no end of aggravation.

There is a simple solution, though.

Don't put down your SSN on the form.

Your race is mandatory. Your sex is mandatory. Where you were born is mandatory. Your SSN is *optional*.

They say its there to prevent misidentification that could cause you to be delayed/denied... all I know is I got 'delayed' three or four times in a row over a couple years after NICS went into effect. Then I stopped putting down my SSN, and have had nothing but clean sailing ever since.

YMMV,

Monte

Monte,

I've had a DOD clearance all my adult life until I retired, and NEVER had a 'DELAYED' response. I was in the Navy and then worked for a military contractor. I guess you are just unlucky! ;D