Newbie Reloader Needs Help … 223 Rem Brass Split In Half

[markm87]

I get partials of this all the time in 6.5 cm because my buddy shoots 4 different guns. Some gas guns included.

I'm not sizing ammo for each different chamber, so tough crap. I just pitch out the Hornady cases that start to separate.

Since you're loading 223, get a Dillon case gauge. I set my die to that and have only had like 4 separations in 30 years of loading.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Has nothing to do with pushing the shoulder back, I believe its some flaw
in the starline brass.

I have had the exact thing happen in the same spot but only with starline brass, after 6
or so reloads and bumping the shoulder .001 the cases separated.

Using the same gun and load but substituting lapua 223 brass I go
to 10 reloads without issue.

 

[M-61]

????……

 

[M-61]

????……

Okay, poorly written.
In a bolt action I see no need to ‘bump’ a shoulder except if it is hard to chamber ( close the bolt).
It unnecessarily works the brass and I’m always lost on what folks think happens to the headspace regarding the case fitting in the chamber where the headspace has actually been set. Bolt closes nicely no reason to bump the cases shoulder. If the goal is to see how much stretch the case can take go for it.
I talking about bolt action target rifles. Although when I did hunt, after reloading I always checked each round would chamber.
One question mark tells me I screwed up or was unclear/ poorly written.

 

[bozo699]

M6

Okay, poorly written.
In a bolt action I see no need to ‘bump’ a shoulder except if it is hard to chamber ( close the bolt).
It unnecessarily works the brass and I’m always lost on what folks think happens to the headspace regarding the case fitting in the chamber where the headspace has actually been set. Bolt closes nicely no reason to bump the cases shoulder. If the goal is to see how much stretch the case can take go for it.
I talking about bolt action target rifles. Although when I did hunt, after reloading I always checked each round would chamber.
One question mark tells me I screwed up or was unclear/ poorly written.

M61,
The key to accuracy is consistency,….. it’s why most…… long range guys don’t neck size. We full length size bump shoulder every time to stay consistent. If your just shooting a paper plate or pop cans then I guess your right it don’t matter but when a few thousandth of an inch might make the difference in taking the wood home or going home empty handed then consistency is extremely important. Some thing for hunting rifles,… if your a long range hunter,….. (I am not) then you need to be as accurate as possible,… even more importantly you need it to function,…. Hence why we full length size and bump shoulders. If you yourself don’t bump shoulders in your bolt rifles and your getting the accuracy and functionality that your looking for then I’m happy for ya buddy.
Always good reading your post my friend.

Again these are just my thoughts on the subject and how I do it but it’s not a law and I could be all wrong in how I see it.
Wayne

 

[M-61]

Yeah, paper plates! Everything I write is just my thoughts. Bump away

 

[bozo699]

Yeah, paper plates! Everything I write is just my thoughts. Bump away

That’s pretty good paper plate shooting buddy.
Don’t bump away!….looks like whatever your doing is working well for ya….
Wayne

 

[K22]

Appears to be the classic case of case separation from over stretching the case. Cure is simple.

1. Trash existing cases. Start with new virgin cases. Dedicate them to one rifle and rotate their use.

2. Get a bump gauge and caliper. Learn how to set up your F/L for optimum sizing. PM me if you don't know how.

3. Only bump the shoulder if needed. New cases have to fire form to rifle chamber. Measuring the case head spacing before and after (spent primer removed) firing will reveal how much the cases are stretching. Without measuring the amount of expansion, you're merely guessing.

 

[Derick549]

I had this exact same thing happen to me on starline brass I purchased from creedmoor about 2 years ago. Twice fired in my ar xtc rifle. I bumped shoulders .002. I had 4 failures. I contacted starline via email with pictures. He could not tell me why it was happening. And sent me free brass for my troubles. I haven't used any of it. I switched to winchester brass.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

whatsupdoc, there was a batch of Starline brass that was defective a while back. Showed same failure as excessive oversizing.

Factory "case guages" are great if you have a chamber that is the exact size of the guage. They are usually on the small size to ensure the case will chamber in any gun. Same theory as die maker instructions. Fits under Dave's "Don't do anything to make the phone ring"

Hunting ammo, needs to be a hair smaller to ensure it functions in the field. Match/target ammo not so much, but still small enough to remove a loaded round if time expires or a sudden cease fire is called.


Frank

 

[Rick300]

I had this exact same thing happen to me on starline brass I purchased from creedmoor about 2 years ago. Twice fired in my ar xtc rifle. I bumped shoulders .002. I had 4 failures. I contacted starline via email with pictures. He could not tell me why it was happening. And sent me free brass for my troubles. I haven't used any of it. I switched to winchester brass.

Uh oh. I purchased 1400 Starline brass from Creedmore at about the same time. I have spent many days making it into vartarg brass. I hope that wasn't a mistake.

 

[243winxb]

strange

Each station of a Dillon progressive press can produce a different sizing, case head to datum measurement.

Shell plate thickness is different. Any shoulder set back over .010", will produce your results.

 

[M-61]

Only bump the shoulder if needed

Absolutely my line of thought. Briefly if you think of the process. The ‘headspace’ is set when the barrel is screwed into the action. The actual headspace is from the closed face of the bolt to what is called the ‘datum’ line which (contrary to one fguffey) an imaginary line which is where the shoulder of the brass contacts the chamber end(?)
The set headspace maybe 2 to 3 thousandths. You bump the shoulder back an amount which I’ve read some bumping 5 thousandths. You now have say 8 thousandths headspace. No Good. Way too much. The brass gets quite a running start at the bolt face. Providing everything stays intact that brass with the help of 50,000 psi stretches to fill the say 8 thousandths.
Where is that extra brass coming from ? The case is getting thinner and sooner than later one has case separation.
On occasion I will have a case on which the bolt fails to close. Then and only then will I slightly bump the shoulder back to allow closer.
In my experience I’ve found that a tight case may be solved by letting it sit for 10 seconds or so IN THE DIE. That bit of ‘soak’ time works wonders.
I don’t hunt any more. My rifles are benchrest rifles. And of course all of the above is strictly my opinion which has been shortened for everyone’s sake.

Edit: most headspace is set by screwing barrel into action, not all.

 

[Bat Rastard]

I had this exact same thing happen to me on starline brass I purchased from creedmoor about 2 years ago. Twice fired in my ar xtc rifle. I bumped shoulders .002. I had 4 failures. I contacted starline via email with pictures. He could not tell me why it was happening. And sent me free brass for my troubles. I haven't used any of it. I switched to winchester brass.

Was it 223?

 

[Bat Rastard]

whatsupdoc, there was a batch of Starline brass that was defective a while back. Showed same failure as excessive oversizing.

Factory "case guages" are great if you have a chamber that is the exact size of the guage. They are usually on the small size to ensure the case will chamber in any gun. Same theory as die maker instructions. Fits under Dave's "Don't do anything to make the phone ring"

Hunting ammo, needs to be a hair smaller to ensure it functions in the field. Match/target ammo not so much, but still small enough to remove a loaded round if time expires or a sudden cease fire is called.


Frank

Was it 223?

 

[Webphut]

That’s case head separation.

Just resize the brass until it fits in a chamber gauge made to your rifles specs. I use LE Wilson for my reloading. I will buy factory loaded ammo for first time shooting. I usually use ammo that comes with decent brass. There is a whole world book encyclopedia of information on what is decent brass. I tend to use Winchester, Remington, lapis cases and if not Bart’s custom bullets, then Barnes triple shocks. Nosler partition is good. Anyways, LEWilson call them up and if they don’t already have one made up, they will make one for you. Other option is to plant you rifle behind your reloading stuff and trial chamber each case after resizing. Don’t want bolt handle to just freefall closed, but don’t want to have to leverage it down using the scope as a fulcrum either.

 

[K22]

Absolutely my line of thought. Briefly if you think of the process. The ‘headspace’ is set when the barrel is screwed into the action. The actual headspace is from the closed face of the bolt to what is called the ‘datum’ line which (contrary to one fguffey) an imaginary line which is where the shoulder of the brass contacts the chamber end(?)
The set headspace maybe 2 to 3 thousandths. You bump the shoulder back an amount which I’ve read some bumping 5 thousandths. You now have say 8 thousandths headspace. No Good. Way too much. The brass gets quite a running start at the bolt face. Providing everything stays intact that brass with the help of 50,000 psi stretches to fill the say 8 thousandths.
Where is that extra brass coming from ? The case is getting thinner and sooner than later one has case separation.
On occasion I will have a case on which the bolt fails to close. Then and only then will I slightly bump the shoulder back to allow closer.
In my experience I’ve found that a tight case may be solved by letting it sit for 10 seconds or so IN THE DIE. That bit of ‘soak’ time works wonders.
I don’t hunt any more. My rifles are benchrest rifles. And of course all of the above is strictly my opinion which has been shortened for everyone’s sake.

I am amazed since I started measuring case head space. I have discovered that I can go 10 to 12 reloadings before I have to bump the shoulder. I've been using zero bump. As I stated in the other post, I think this is working because the F/L die also sizes the radial dimension of the case. I have also noticed more consistency in my groups.

I would also like to note that I am shooting a low intensely cartridge, mainly 223 bolt rifles with below max loads. But I have seen similar results in my 243's.

 

[Webphut]

It could be case head separation. However, that is pretty far up the case from the top of the webbing where the case head region first thins out into the case wall, which is often the site of case head separation. I would expect to see case head separation a little lower on the body further down toward the extractor groove. Definitively diagnosing such issues from a single picture on the internet is not always the simple thing it might seem.

That was my thought too. I do not reload 223 though. I only reload .243”/6mm cartridges. Everything else I shoot is factory loaded with Nosler partition or Barnes tipped triple shock bullets. My thought was that it may just be the individual rifles personality with brass. Every rifle is unique in some way shape or form. The way the brass came apart may just have to do with the way the brass flows when shot in this specific rifle. I seen one of the other folks chamber gauges on this thread. I actually think it is a very very practical gauge. It has been machined with a 1/4 of its body removed. This is actually something that would remove any question on how the brass is resized. I may have to have mine opened up like these. Anyways, thank you for posting a picture of the gauge, whoever that was. It is back a few posts.

 

[Webphut]

You need a case gauge and then work backwards from there. I like the Sheridan Slotted Gauges.

Ammunition Gauges

Slotted Ammunition Gauges

sheridanengineering.com

This is the gauge I would buy if I had to buy new gauges again. Without a doubt, this is a five star design. Very very practical. The only thing that could be better, is if you had the gunsmith make you an exact copy of the barrel they chamber for you. But if the reamers are to Spec. Then not sure it really is better. Maybe better for a custom chamber.

 

[jelenko]

You need a case gauge and then work backwards from there. I like the Sheridan Slotted Gauges.

Ammunition Gauges

Slotted Ammunition Gauges

sheridanengineering.com

I think a case gauge like this one is very difficult to tell how much headspace a case has. You have to use your Mark II finger tip or eyeball to tell if the case is above, same or below SAAMI max. It doesn't tell you how the resized case fits your chamber. There's .006 difference between SAAMI min and max.