Just getting into long range shooting and I could use some tips. I bought a Remington SPS Tactical in .308 and dropped it into an XLR element chassis. I topped it with a Sightron SIII 6x24. After reading a lot of posts on this forum I think I may have bought the wrong gun. A 20 inch barrel doesn't seem very well suited to long range shooting. I have been reading about blueprinting actions and rebarreling and it seems most on the forum feel it would be a better idea to go with a custom action rather than try go through all the trouble to blueprint and accurize the factory action. I also want to start reloading, especially since I live in California and now have to register my ammo. Total bs. I bought a Forster co ax press but don't have anything else. I have an old Ohaus cent-o-gram scale but I don't know if it's any good for reloading. What are your thoughts on where I should go from here. I feel like I've thrown money around but have made poor decisions with where I have invested. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Newbie needs advice
- Thread starter NewbieLR
- Start date
IMO you're moving too fast.
Starting totally green and trying to learn long range shooting AND reloading at the same time is a tall order. My advice is to keep the gun you have. Get introduced to reloading (read several manuals and get a seasoned buddy to mentor you) and learn the basics. As your reloading expertise increases you will be ready to learn proper shooting technique at short range (again, books and buddy is best). When you're comfortable and confident creating precision loads and can shoot consistently at 100 yards under windy conditions then the next step is to learn the long-range game. By that point you'll have a good idea of what rifle/cartrige combo will work for you.
Starting totally green and trying to learn long range shooting AND reloading at the same time is a tall order. My advice is to keep the gun you have. Get introduced to reloading (read several manuals and get a seasoned buddy to mentor you) and learn the basics. As your reloading expertise increases you will be ready to learn proper shooting technique at short range (again, books and buddy is best). When you're comfortable and confident creating precision loads and can shoot consistently at 100 yards under windy conditions then the next step is to learn the long-range game. By that point you'll have a good idea of what rifle/cartrige combo will work for you.
I got a no bs answer for you. My buddy got a factory rem 700 308 just like you have, put it in another stock just like you did. He then bagan learning reloading. As his skills and knowledge increased he ended up with a load for it that shot very very well. He ended up shooting with me recreationally out to 800 yards with it. So by all means yes the gun you have is fine to start and learn on. You have several years of learning ahead of you before you would ever need a custom rig.
Since then he sent his rifle to my gunsmith i use and put a heavier custom barrel on it and got the action trued up, put a new aftermarket trigger in it, that gun shoots light out now... just as good as many custom rifles
Since then he sent his rifle to my gunsmith i use and put a heavier custom barrel on it and got the action trued up, put a new aftermarket trigger in it, that gun shoots light out now... just as good as many custom rifles
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
What's your definition of "long range"? What is the maximum distance for shooting you will have ready access to in CA? Although it may not be optimal for shooting in 1000 yd competition, your choice is plenty suitable for learning to reload and improving your shooting skills. As noted by others, when the time comes you can have it re-barreled/chambered and upgraded however you wish at that time.
FWIW - I shot the Applied Ballistics 175 gr Tactical commercial ammo from a 23" barreled .308 for several years before learning to reload, and won quite a few local matches while doing it. It's pretty pricey, but you might check some out to see how it shoots in your rifle while you're learning the reloading process. It's head and shoulders better than other commercial match ammunition I have ever tried. Also, the disadvantages of the shorter factory pipe will become less as the distance decreases. A 20" barrel might not be my first choice, but if that's what I had, I would have no hesitation using it in 300/600 yd F-TR matches, especially with a really well-developed load. I would go ahead and use what you have while developing your reloading technique. During that time, you can also better plan future purchases with your specific LR goals in mind.
FWIW - I shot the Applied Ballistics 175 gr Tactical commercial ammo from a 23" barreled .308 for several years before learning to reload, and won quite a few local matches while doing it. It's pretty pricey, but you might check some out to see how it shoots in your rifle while you're learning the reloading process. It's head and shoulders better than other commercial match ammunition I have ever tried. Also, the disadvantages of the shorter factory pipe will become less as the distance decreases. A 20" barrel might not be my first choice, but if that's what I had, I would have no hesitation using it in 300/600 yd F-TR matches, especially with a really well-developed load. I would go ahead and use what you have while developing your reloading technique. During that time, you can also better plan future purchases with your specific LR goals in mind.
You dont NEED a custom rig to end up with something that shoots very very well. Run with what you have. Down the road when you get it all down way better and you have the funds build yourself a custom rig.
I didnt build a single custom rifle until i could outshoot my factory rifle and the rifle couldnt outshoot me.
And ill add my custom 308 has a 22 inch barrel....
I didnt build a single custom rifle until i could outshoot my factory rifle and the rifle couldnt outshoot me.
And ill add my custom 308 has a 22 inch barrel....
I appreciate the input. All the local ranges are 100 yards max. There was a 200 yard range but it was shut down. I wanted to try 600 yards but I'm thinking that may be a little ambitious now. Sacramento has the only range that I would be able to shoot that distance. They also have a 1000 yard range. http://www.sacvalley.org/ I think I will try getting proficient at 100 yards before I even think about going long.
I think you have a very nice setup currently. I have the same rifle you mentioned but mine is in a cheaper B&C M40 stock and has a simple Leupold 3-10x40. It was initially intended to be a donor action but was so accurate I decided to just leave it.
It's accuracy has been great with SMK, AMAX's, and VLD's. Easily shoots...well I'll just show you some groups.
So not great compared to a gun with a barrel that begins with Bart and ends with Lein, but for a factory barrel, not too shabby, IMO!
Consider This:
-Buy a Forster FL sizing die and micrometer seating die.
-A cheap digital scale and calipers.
-100 pieces of Lapua brass.
-Some IMR 4064 and CCI or Federal LR primers.
-And one or two good reloading manuals.
-Google Fundamentals of Marksmanship and do some studying.
Then go load whatever bullet you like and shoot the crap out of that gun. Set objective and attainable goals and watch your skills grow.
Bring some homemade sandbags if you don't have standard rests, they can be quite steady. It's nice to have all the best equipment, and over time you will begin to acquire them, but they are not required to start and shoot well.
Best of Luck to you and have fun!
It's accuracy has been great with SMK, AMAX's, and VLD's. Easily shoots...well I'll just show you some groups.
So not great compared to a gun with a barrel that begins with Bart and ends with Lein, but for a factory barrel, not too shabby, IMO!
Consider This:
-Buy a Forster FL sizing die and micrometer seating die.
-A cheap digital scale and calipers.
-100 pieces of Lapua brass.
-Some IMR 4064 and CCI or Federal LR primers.
-And one or two good reloading manuals.
-Google Fundamentals of Marksmanship and do some studying.
Then go load whatever bullet you like and shoot the crap out of that gun. Set objective and attainable goals and watch your skills grow.
Bring some homemade sandbags if you don't have standard rests, they can be quite steady. It's nice to have all the best equipment, and over time you will begin to acquire them, but they are not required to start and shoot well.
Best of Luck to you and have fun!
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Oh, and read all the articles on this website. The information here would take an individual a lifetime to acquire on their own.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Best advice yet.! Anyone just "getting into it" should buy a Remmy or Tikka in 308 or 223 and "shoot the crap out of it"! Practice and refine your reloading techniques and read, read, read this forum. I joined this forum about a year after I found it. Honestly, I spend at least an hour everyday here, reading posts and acquiring tips and info. Use the search feature anytime you have a thought about something. If you get stuck, ask the question. There are a LOT of great shooters here, willing to help. Some are Champion shooters with the medals to prove it. I still like to shoot my "starter rifle".
Remmy 308 5R. Bone stock rifle. Save your money and learn. Buy when you have more knowledge. You'll save a ton of money in the long run. PS You haven't wasted a dime, so far.
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Newbie, You're on the right track sir! I started the journey of learning LR shooting a few years ago just like you did. I had been reloading for pistol but picked up reloading for 308 soon after. I'm still shooting the factory barrel on my Remington 700 SPS Tactical, but mine is the 16" ! Now I have it in the ACIS chassis with high quality glass, mounts, supports, trigger, etc, and it shoots very well. I have a number of loads that work in my setup with the 168 and 178 AMAX, as well as with the 175SMK. I shoot at all ranges out to 600 quite frequently and have shoot out to 1000 on occasion. I do plan on rebarreling to really maximize the potential of the cartridge but it already exceeds most peoples expectations for a 308. I can hit the 5" gong at 600 yards sometimes 5, 6 times in a row, and that's with the damn factory barrel! That's with a Harris bi-pod and the Accushot monopod for a rear rest.
I am currently waiting for Boots Obermeyer to make me a custom barrel but I'v had my order in for quite a while so who knows when it will be. Until then, my factory Remington barrel is great, at least for my purposes.
With the help of high quality consistent hand loads, a good chronograph , and a good ballistics program using Brian Litz's G7 BC's, that Remington is capable of a great deal of precision at all ranges within its supersonic range. If I were you I would keep what you have and spend some time on youtube getting together the rest of what you need for reloading 308 . Everyone here can help with the specifics when you come across them. Spend some time testing different loads and bullets to figure out the best one. In the meantime you could always but some match ammo to practice with, the Hornady 168 Match is pretty good stuff but expensive. May want to check out 8541 Tactical's youtube channel, if you haven't already. A lot of great info on starting out reloading for 308 Win. Do the necessary tracking tests at 100 yards to make sure you're on track before taking it out to range so you know what is and isn't affecting your results... and see where you're at. That's what I'd do at least. You may find that tinkering with everything else gets you well under 1moa. Then you can reevaluate the option of rebarreling on a custom action or having the factory action "trued" by a competent gunsmith. Until then, spend the $$$ on bullets and range time. Good luck with it. Jesse
I am currently waiting for Boots Obermeyer to make me a custom barrel but I'v had my order in for quite a while so who knows when it will be. Until then, my factory Remington barrel is great, at least for my purposes.
With the help of high quality consistent hand loads, a good chronograph , and a good ballistics program using Brian Litz's G7 BC's, that Remington is capable of a great deal of precision at all ranges within its supersonic range. If I were you I would keep what you have and spend some time on youtube getting together the rest of what you need for reloading 308 . Everyone here can help with the specifics when you come across them. Spend some time testing different loads and bullets to figure out the best one. In the meantime you could always but some match ammo to practice with, the Hornady 168 Match is pretty good stuff but expensive. May want to check out 8541 Tactical's youtube channel, if you haven't already. A lot of great info on starting out reloading for 308 Win. Do the necessary tracking tests at 100 yards to make sure you're on track before taking it out to range so you know what is and isn't affecting your results... and see where you're at. That's what I'd do at least. You may find that tinkering with everything else gets you well under 1moa. Then you can reevaluate the option of rebarreling on a custom action or having the factory action "trued" by a competent gunsmith. Until then, spend the $$$ on bullets and range time. Good luck with it. Jesse
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
Keep it if you can do it financially. If you do get heavy into loading you'll find a niche for it.
Here's a 20" Tactical Remington with a 'can' and the only thing done to it was to install a Timney trigger! It'll shoot 5 shot groups (with or without the can) from 600 yards I can cover with the palm of my hand using my reloads!
Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr
Keep the rifle you've got and give it....and YOU a chance!!
Untitled by Sharps Man, on FlickrKeep the rifle you've got and give it....and YOU a chance!!
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Thanks everyone. I feel a whole lot better about my rifle now. Im going to get some range time with it and learn the basics of shooting. Glad I didn't spend a bunch of money on getting the action trued and rebarreled since I'm sure it can shoot a whole lot better than I can as is. This forum truly is a valuable resource. Tons of information.
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