Hi new to reloading. I have alot of equipment that I need and started to reload 308. Just wondering if there any one in the chicago area that could help out a lil of show me the ropes maybe teach me some tricks so there is not such a big learning curve.
New to reloading need a mentor
- Thread starter ChitownCopper
- Start date
Huge learning curve for sure. I'm not in the area but hopefully you will find someone. Until then read some load books. The lyman 49th or 50th edition would be good ones, they will help you out some. Be safe out there.
Ya I have a couple books and have been reading alot
Please ignore the folksy stuff and the actual reloading data for your caliber until you fully understand reloading do's, don'ts, how to's, and never do's in the manual(s) being read and it is suggested, IMHO, to start with a starter kit instead of individual components recommended by Jimmy, Joe, or John because it is the "best" or what they use. Even if everything is replaced after a year or two, you will still be ahead of the game instead of replacing these "recommended" items which cost a lot more out of the starting gate.
Right now, your goal will be to read, digest, and get that first round completed. You can refine everything later on as your skills grow. When you do start refining, work on one thing at a time, otherwise you will not know what was the "fix" to the problem you are encountering. There are dozens of variables affecting your bullet holes on paper. If you address two variables at a time, i.e. seating depth and powder charge and you get great groups on paper, you won't know which one or both have gotten you to the success stage. Then, there is the wind factor which is another whole kettle of fish.
Please go slow, be careful and if it takes you two hours to make that first round, so be it.
Even though you appear to be from Chicago,ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE HERE, WHETHER YOU THINK THEY ARE STUPID OR NOT. We have all been where you are at one time.
Right now, your goal will be to read, digest, and get that first round completed. You can refine everything later on as your skills grow. When you do start refining, work on one thing at a time, otherwise you will not know what was the "fix" to the problem you are encountering. There are dozens of variables affecting your bullet holes on paper. If you address two variables at a time, i.e. seating depth and powder charge and you get great groups on paper, you won't know which one or both have gotten you to the success stage. Then, there is the wind factor which is another whole kettle of fish.
Please go slow, be careful and if it takes you two hours to make that first round, so be it.
Even though you appear to be from Chicago,ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE HERE, WHETHER YOU THINK THEY ARE STUPID OR NOT. We have all been where you are at one time.
farmerjohn
Gold $$ Contributor
After over fifty years of reloading and reflecting upon starting over knowing nothing IMHO it's probably one hell of a lot more important to know what for damn sure NOT TO DO!
That being said, there is probably some ranges in your area that host competition in the discipline of shooting that you are wanting to. Go to the local matches and use what you've learned as an officer in judging the credibility of people and meet some of the fokes there and I'll bet you can get some "hands on" help. Most of the shooting fraternity that I know will go way out of the way to help a new shooter/reloader get started. And the fokes here on this site will help a lot if you can put up with us
John
That being said, there is probably some ranges in your area that host competition in the discipline of shooting that you are wanting to. Go to the local matches and use what you've learned as an officer in judging the credibility of people and meet some of the fokes there and I'll bet you can get some "hands on" help. Most of the shooting fraternity that I know will go way out of the way to help a new shooter/reloader get started. And the fokes here on this site will help a lot if you can put up with us
John
Thanks I have a rockchucker. Case trimmer with 3 way cutter. Hornady ultrasonic. Franklin digital scale. Dillon carbide dies. Dillon head space gauge. 4064 powder and Sierra match kings 168. Manuals and such. I just want to make sure I'm setting up dies right and everything I dont want to mess anything up.
I like the Rockchucker, I am not a fan of ultrasonic cleaners, I would NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES trust that scale. I'd recommend a GOOD balance beam (Older Redding Ohaus RCBS) I'm not sure of the dies, the problems w/carbide are many w/rifle brass bur if the have Mike Dillon's name on them they will work. This is suspect because rifle brass is tapered for extraction, pistol brass which is where carbide is normally used just has a ring at the bottom. 4064 is a favorite of mine and was made for the 308, especialy w/168 grn bullets. I don't like your case trimmer either, Get a Wilson
A lot in opinionated! Gary
A lot in opinionated! Gary
The suguestion on Lyman manuals is real good too. Pretty sure mine is 46th edition. Has a lot of good reading in it, very informative.
There are certain things, that as a beginner, you probably won't need. I would not worry about a comparator. You will need a powder drop to drop/throw powder near what you want, and you will/can trickle up to the load you ultimately want. If you are using new, unfired brass, its not likely you will have to trim them for the first couple of firings. 4064 is a great powder, I just don't shoot 168's, and forgot what my son-in-law used for 168's. Depending on what gun you are using, a load from the manuals should work fine. You will have to tinker with it to find out what the gun likes, ie: groups of 5 rounds with different powder chargers varying 3 to 5 grains per 5 round group. Shoot them, and see which gives the best group. Borrow a chronograph, and get the velocity and deviation across each group of 5 rounds. Don't do what I did and shoot the chronograph, its an expensive mistake! An electronic scale, and an automatic trickler speeds things up. Get a good scale. I have a Sartorius, pricey, but worth it. Using 4064, I weigh each load. Stick powders, like 4064, don't "throw"/"drop" well, so you will have to trickle up to your desired load. Get a set of dial calipers. They are invaluable for a quick measurement of case length, or overall length of the loaded round. Get a bullet puller, we all make mistakes. I think I have a kinetic? Its like a hammer that you place the round into a collar and then thump away until the bullet pops out.
As far as setup goes, I would set the dies so that, initially, the sized brass or loaded round it a tad longer than spec, and then work the die down until you get the desired sizing you want (shoulder and length) or overall length of loaded rounds you want. This is where the headspace gauge and calipers come in. When setting up the seating die, use the brass and bullet, no powder or primer. Just pop the bullet when everything is set up, and should be good to go. I have two presses, one for seating the bullet, and one for sizing and de-capping the brass. This way, I don't have to monkey with the dies whenever I sit down to reload. I only shoot .308, so I don't ever have to remove the dies.
I've rambled, feel free to ask for any clarification, if I haven't lost you. I'm sure others will feel free to critique my methodology, or lack thereof.
Shooting is a great sport. Enjoy!
John
As far as setup goes, I would set the dies so that, initially, the sized brass or loaded round it a tad longer than spec, and then work the die down until you get the desired sizing you want (shoulder and length) or overall length of loaded rounds you want. This is where the headspace gauge and calipers come in. When setting up the seating die, use the brass and bullet, no powder or primer. Just pop the bullet when everything is set up, and should be good to go. I have two presses, one for seating the bullet, and one for sizing and de-capping the brass. This way, I don't have to monkey with the dies whenever I sit down to reload. I only shoot .308, so I don't ever have to remove the dies.
I've rambled, feel free to ask for any clarification, if I haven't lost you. I'm sure others will feel free to critique my methodology, or lack thereof.
Shooting is a great sport. Enjoy!
John
Last edited:
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
Hi Joe,
I looked for a thread about these comparators and didn't find one.
That said, I use the Hornady set and find it to be extremely repeatable for base-to-ogive (~.001")and base-to-shoulder (~.0005") measurements. Yes, they clamp slightly off-center but unless you're using garbage plastic calipers, it has no effect on accuracy. I leave both sides slightly snug, squeeze the calipers tight, align them, and final tighten. The only thing I've had to watch for is a proud primer, which is easy enough to remove.
The Hornady tool for measuring bolt face to lands in the rifle chamber is useful but not quite as accurate. I suspect many who malign this particular gauge are tapping their reference brass without a lathe and/or just aren't being careful in their use.
For a beginner and even advanced reloader, the full Hornady comparator set is quite a good value. I believe a beginner should have a uniform way of measuring base to shoulder and base to ogive. It's dangerous to operate blind to these crucial measurements.
I haven't used the Hornady runout gauge. It may be junk, I don't know.
Nick Caprinolo
Gold $$ Contributor
Take a new look at the Hornady comparators you have. It can be mounted so that it is centered in the calibers. Just turn it 180 degrees and tighten the screw. It is now centered. Put it on the caliber and close them to set zero, then tighten the screw. It is centered perfectly.
When I started hand loading I pretty much had the basic RCBS rock chucker reloading kit with press, lube pad, powder measure, 505 scale and funnel. It may have come with their case trimmer. Other than that I think I bought a set of calipers to measure. I didn’t have anything fancy or the multitude of tools that were developed to increase precision, accuracy and consistency. I just followed the steps in the reloading books and die instructions for proper set up.
You’ll get tons of recommendations on tools and brands and methods from the internet, but to start out I would follow the basics in a reloading manual and die instructions to start out or the process can get overwhelming. Make sure you understand all of the instructions and ask someone if not (again, as mentioned, there are no stupid questions). Start with a couple of dummy rounds to make sure everything is working per directions and will chamber in your gun (I would skip the primer and powder charge for this step and clearly mark the round for identification).
When you are set up and have a decent understanding of the processes, start measuring and weighing powder charges to gain consistency. Weigh out 5 charges and set in separate cases. Re-weigh them to ensure you can consistently throw accurate charge weights. As mentioned, I would get a decent beam scale - they are reliably accurate in most cases. At a bare minimum make sure you have a way of checking your scale readings with a check weight.
Once you are comfortable with the processes take your time and build your first couple of rounds while checking and triple checking everything along the way. Also, start with all of the components listed in the book recipe (for starting out stick with the books rather than internet data) to reduce any margins for error in component variations.
Ultimately, it’s best to have a mentor to guide you through the processes, but if you understand all of the important fundamentals that are outlined in the reloading manuals and start low working up, it can be done on your own. Don’t over complicate things when starting out and don’t skip steps.
As mentioned previously, a chronograph is also an indispensable tool for understanding the results of your work. As you gain more experience you can start adding new processes to improve quality, consistency and accuracy.
Best of luck in the journey - it’s a fun hobby
You’ll get tons of recommendations on tools and brands and methods from the internet, but to start out I would follow the basics in a reloading manual and die instructions to start out or the process can get overwhelming. Make sure you understand all of the instructions and ask someone if not (again, as mentioned, there are no stupid questions). Start with a couple of dummy rounds to make sure everything is working per directions and will chamber in your gun (I would skip the primer and powder charge for this step and clearly mark the round for identification).
When you are set up and have a decent understanding of the processes, start measuring and weighing powder charges to gain consistency. Weigh out 5 charges and set in separate cases. Re-weigh them to ensure you can consistently throw accurate charge weights. As mentioned, I would get a decent beam scale - they are reliably accurate in most cases. At a bare minimum make sure you have a way of checking your scale readings with a check weight.
Once you are comfortable with the processes take your time and build your first couple of rounds while checking and triple checking everything along the way. Also, start with all of the components listed in the book recipe (for starting out stick with the books rather than internet data) to reduce any margins for error in component variations.
Ultimately, it’s best to have a mentor to guide you through the processes, but if you understand all of the important fundamentals that are outlined in the reloading manuals and start low working up, it can be done on your own. Don’t over complicate things when starting out and don’t skip steps.
As mentioned previously, a chronograph is also an indispensable tool for understanding the results of your work. As you gain more experience you can start adding new processes to improve quality, consistency and accuracy.
Best of luck in the journey - it’s a fun hobby
J F Johannes
AKA "RatRifle"
I disagree. They do get closer to centering, but not exact. You may be using the thinner bladed calipers and maybe that helps. I use Mitutoyo and I cannot get them to center. I posted that pic in another thread here it is:
Jim
Edit: Sorry to the OP for de-railing your thread. If you want one of the red ones(Hornady) in the picture, PM me and I will send it to you Free. You will still need the correct inserts to use.
Attachments
Nick Caprinolo
Gold $$ Contributor
Here's the thing, asking for advice from a group as large and diversified as this is will get you many differing opinions. You are the one doing the loading and taking the risk, if there is a miscommunication, or the advice is wrong. If you are loading for casual shooting, almost any of the equipment sold today will do the job. When you are loading for tight groups, or competition, that's where exacting tolerances and really good equipment comes into the picture.
The most important piece of equipment for tight groups is the scale. You can use a powder drop, if you do not need exacting repeatable loads but a good balance scale should be on every loading bench. There are scales that cost $1,000.00 and do everything for you except pour the powder into the case. Most of us would love to have one, on the bench but it is not a necessity. Only you can decide what is right for you.
There are hundreds of how to videos, on youtube. Some are really good but some are just trash. Watch them and when you find several that tell you to do things i the same manner, with a lot of likes, you have probably found the right advice.
Never sit at the loading bench if you are in a hurry or bad mood. Make sure there are no distractions and take the time to check and double check each stage of your reloading.
Take note, that I have not advocated any particular brand of equipment. I know reloaders that have the cheapest equipment and get better results than those who use the so called best of the best.
Join a local shooting club. these guys are serious at what they do and most are very willing to to share their expertise to anyone who wants to learn. You will find that in many cases, you will be invited to their houses and be able to sit beside them as they take you through each step.
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
The most important piece of equipment for tight groups is the scale. You can use a powder drop, if you do not need exacting repeatable loads but a good balance scale should be on every loading bench. There are scales that cost $1,000.00 and do everything for you except pour the powder into the case. Most of us would love to have one, on the bench but it is not a necessity. Only you can decide what is right for you.
There are hundreds of how to videos, on youtube. Some are really good but some are just trash. Watch them and when you find several that tell you to do things i the same manner, with a lot of likes, you have probably found the right advice.
Never sit at the loading bench if you are in a hurry or bad mood. Make sure there are no distractions and take the time to check and double check each stage of your reloading.
Take note, that I have not advocated any particular brand of equipment. I know reloaders that have the cheapest equipment and get better results than those who use the so called best of the best.
Join a local shooting club. these guys are serious at what they do and most are very willing to to share their expertise to anyone who wants to learn. You will find that in many cases, you will be invited to their houses and be able to sit beside them as they take you through each step.
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
I just ordered the
Davidson Seating Depth Checker. Made of stainless and seems to be a little better than the hornady one. Any opinions
Davidson Seating Depth Checker. Made of stainless and seems to be a little better than the hornady one. Any opinions
Judging by your name, have you asked any other fellow officers that might be reloaders? Do they actually have gun clubs in Chicago...... I mean other than the Crips and Bloods!
As many have said on here, just your basic equipment and dies will get you inexpensive ammo to shoot. If you are wanting to practice for the sniper team, then you may want to invest in more sophisticated equipment. When I started, with just the basics, I could load hunting ammo under 1 MOA without all the bells and whistles.
As many have said on here, just your basic equipment and dies will get you inexpensive ammo to shoot. If you are wanting to practice for the sniper team, then you may want to invest in more sophisticated equipment. When I started, with just the basics, I could load hunting ammo under 1 MOA without all the bells and whistles.
Nick Caprinolo
Gold $$ Contributor
If you are a member of the FOP or other Union, call your secretary and ask he or she if they would send out an email to the membership about your need for a mentor. Cops always do their best to aid a Brother. If you have a Retiree Organization, contact them. There are at least 20 guys in our Retiree Org who reload. Chicago and Baltimore much alike, especially in crime stats. Must be a lot of like minded folks up there.
Further, stop buying things because of your enthusiasm for reloading. Wait till you really learn what you absolutely need.
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