New to Long Range, need some opinions

[SeanAce1]

Alright, so I am new to the long range shooting sports. Ive done my research and emailed my share of people probing for all kinds of information. My budget is not overly large and i'm not building a rifle for intense competition, yet.. Through my work I got ahold of a Remington 700 SPS Varmint .308 for 400 dollars NIB. I was told a good platform to start on would be a VLS, however for half the price I seem to have bought the same barrel and action with a synthetic stock and a non-jewled bolt. I figure the 400 dollar price difference could be better spent elsewhere.

I have about 200 dollars to spend right now, I need a base and rings. I want to shoot from 100 to 600 yards with the possibility of hitting 1000 at some point without buying crazy adjustable height bases or rings, or spending more than 4-500 dollars on a scope with crazy internal adjustments. Can anyone give me a suggestion on what set up would work. I have been told solid brand bases and rings include badger ordnance, seekins and warne. I like the seekins design and prices better. Also, I would prefer an adjustable magnification scope but have heard fixed mag. scopes have more internal adjustment. Any info would be greatly appreciated! It also seems like the scope prices in the optics section of this site are way off, where are the bargains at??

 

[Twud]

To shoot at 600 yards you're going to need a pretty serious scope. I would be looking for a 20-24 power with an adjustable parallax feature. Maybe Nikon or Bushnell. Leupold would be my first choice, but you'd need more budget. Save your pennies and wait for the right scope. You may be able to find something on,curse the word) ebay.
Look at Bruno's site, I've found some pretty good deals there.

 

[M700]

http://www.swfa.com is a site where good optics can be found at a good price. Of particular interest to you may be the scope called a "Super Sniper." Despite the somewhat silly name, it is a very good fixed power scope,10, 16 or 20 power) in the $300 - $400 range, depending on model. I've seen these scopes do very well at matches.

One question you'll need to answer for yourself is what kind of long range shooting interests you. There are several:

1. Long range benchrest. I don't know much about it except what I read here. What I read here impresses the heck out of me.

2. NRA Highpower prone competition. Rifle supported by a sling. Either put match sights on that rifle and shoot it that way, or scope it and shoot it in the any rifle/any sight class. Both are fun.

3. NRA Highpower prone F-class competition. A very nice fit for your rifle with a good scope, a bipod and a rear bag. In F/TR you'll be competing against a bunch of guys with rifles very similar to yours - although some may be very well built customs. Those are not necessary to do well though, a good shooter driving a stock .308 can do quite well in F/TR.

4. Tactical matches - these are an absolute blast and seldom follow a fixed format from one match to the next. Sometimes you're shooting off a rooftop at a pair of targets, one at 25 yards and the next at 100 yards, and the clock is ticking... Then you're belly down trying to figure the range to that steel silhouette out there at 832 yards... Then there's a series of "hostage" targets at 200 or 300 yards. this stuff is a hoot, and is actually pretty good prep for deer season... Again, your .308 with a decent scope will be right at home in tactical matches.

5. Silhouette - again, an area where I have very limited knowledge. I've shot silhouettes exactly once, an informal practice. I tell ya, hitting a steel ram at 500 meters, from standing, is TOUGH!

Welcome aboard. I think you're in for a lot of fun. Your rifle is a fine one to start with, and the sky is the limit for how far you can take a Rem 700 towards being a true custom.

Regards, Guy

 

[MarkS]

Sean,

Sinclair Int. sells a 20 moa taper base for $40.00 os so. Get Burris Zee Sig ring, the ones with the inserts. This setup is as good as it can get. all for less than $100.00. Sightron 24X target scope, it is fixed, but has 1/8 min adjustments. Not too nuch powder for 1000 yds. This is a super scope, it will click with the best of them, and is less than $400.00 The Weaver 24X is also good. Midway USA carries both. These scopes will run with $600 to $700, so don't pay more, unless you want to go up to the Comp Leupold, of the Nightforce. check on this site foe scopes and things.

Good luck
Mark Schronce

 

[BountyHunter]

+1 on what Mark said. Cannot go wrong going this way.

BH

 

[SeanAce1]

Thank you so much for the input. I have been perusing your forums and it seems the Burris sig z rings are getting all of the props. Are these better compared to some of the more expensive one's like Badger Ordnance or Warne?

And I have one more question.. how do I find these match's to get into. I knew of some where I used to live but recently I found my way to MD;s eastern shore and I can't seem to find the match's. Is there a website that calendars these kind of events?

Thanks again for letting me probe your minds

 

[JamesinAsheville]

Thank you so much for the input. I have been perusing your forums and it seems the Burris sig z rings are getting all of the props. Are these better compared to some of the more expensive one's like Badger Ordnance or Warne?

And I have one more question.. how do I find these match's to get into. I knew of some where I used to live but recently I found my way to MD;s eastern shore and I can't seem to find the match's. Is there a website that calendars these kind of events?

Thanks again for letting me probe your minds

This should get you what your looking for
International Benchrest

 

[MarkS]

Sean,

For 600 yd Benchrest, you are fairly close to Bridgeville DE IBS club. As James said look on IBS site for clubs close.

Think the Zee's hold with the best of them.

Mark

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

I didn't get a clear picture of just what kind of LR shooting you plan to participate in. An idea of what you have in mind would certainly clear up your choices.

Just for example, if you plan a steady diet of Tactical matches get the sturdiest rock solid rings that you can find. I have experience with Badger and Seekins, but there are also rings made by companies like PRI,MWG), GG&G, TPS, and others. These are all "sniper grade' and are designed to hold zero under severe field conditions and military-style abuse.

On the other hand, the Signature Zee rings would work great for any of the other disciplines mentioned.

In short, choose your gear in accordance with the type of shooting that you're engaging in.

 

[SeanAce1]

Looking at bases, I have found US Optics, Badger Ordnance, Warne tactical, IOR Valdada, Seekins, Ken Farrell and Nightforce to be comparable price wise, are there any advantages or even differences between which of these to purchase? Is bedding a scope base even necessary?

Thanks to all of you for this information, I really like this forum, everyone has been extremely helpful, thanks again -Sean

 

[SeanAce1]

And to answer the previous question, I dont plan on banging the gun around too much, but I would like to invest in quality parts that will hold zero between the range, the car and the house

 

[chino1969]

+1 on what Mark said. Cannot go wrong going this way.

BH

+2 on what Mark said.
Chino69

 

[rstreich]

Looking at bases, I have found US Optics, Badger Ordnance, Warne tactical, IOR Valdada, Seekins, Ken Farrell and Nightforce to be comparable price wise, are there any advantages or even differences between which of these to purchase?

For a scope base, you want it straight and stiff. If you're going with a Picatinney rail, it'd also be a good idea to make sure that they follow the spec closely. Personally, I prefer to do business with the smaller shops. Glen Seekins was very helpful with me when I needed a base so he gets my vote.

Is bedding a scope base even necessary?

On a Remington it is strongly advised. The tops of the actions never seem to be perfectly round.

 

[SeanAce1]

How would you go about bedding a scope base, I dont know that there is even enough room in the for fiberglass? Would you just use some simple resin and sand paper, tighten it and let it dry?

 

[rstreich]

Just clean the top of the receiver and bottom of the scope base with some degreaser. Don't scuff them up, you're not trying to weld them together. Apply some blue Loctite to the screws--this'll keep any of the epoxy from sticking to the screws. Then put on a thin coat of JB Quik-Weld and screw it down.

I used a parallel on top of my scope rail to make sure that it remained flat. You can't run all the screws down tight, you'll have to back off on one or two of them depending on your receiver. The whole purpose of the bedding is to allow you to have a solidly mounted, but flat base. It can get a little tricky getting it all done before the Quik-Weld starts to set up. A slower-setting epoxy might be easier, but I had the Quik-Weld on hand.

 

[SeanAce1]

So release agent is only applied to screws and screw holes? Or is it applied to the entire top of the receiver so as not to permanently bond the two as in bedding a stock?

Also, where do you get a torx torque wrench in in/lbs? All i have is a ft/lb automotive torque wrench which is quite some overkill.

And last but not least what do you mean by placing a parallel on top. Is following Ken's instructions enough to keep it level?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am an over-preparer!

 

[rstreich]

So release agent is only applied to screws and screw holes? Or is it applied to the entire top of the receiver so as not to permanently bond the two as in bedding a stock?

Also, where do you get a torx torque wrench in in/lbs? All i have is a ft/lb automotive torque wrench which is quite some overkill.

And last but not least what do you mean by placing a parallel on top. Is following Ken's instructions enough to keep it level?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am an over-preparer!

I'd go with Ken's instructions and apply the release agent to the top of the receiver also. I had to redo mine once or twice and the epoxy didn't bond very tightly to the receiver anyway. Better safe than sorry, though. The Loctite will act like a release agent on the screws, so either way works. If you use Ken's instructions you can apply the Loctite after the epoxy has hardened.

A lot of the tool supply places have torque wrenches and screwdrivers in in./lbs. CDI, Snap-On, and Klein are all brands I've looked at but haven't pulled the trigger on yet. I think both Sinclair's and Midway have some cheap ones available. I'm sure MSC Direct has some cheap ones also.

Machinists parallels have surfaces that are ground flat. I got these just for mounting rails.,BTW, it's good to take the time to wander through their flyer, I just got one of their surface ground pieces of granite for half price also).

Personally, I'd check the flatness,'cause it's nice to have the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that it's flat. Level you can't really do anything about with stock bases. Having it flat means that the base won't be the cause of any stress in your scope.

After you've run the screws down, just place whatever you've found for flatness checking on top of the base and look for gaps. If you only tighten the two inner screws, make sure that there aren't any gaps in the center of the rail. If you're tightening down the outer screws also, check to ensure that you didn't pull the ends of the base down.

No need to apologize for asking questions, we all come here to share information.

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

Very good advice from rstreich!

I would add that you should try to avoid buying a beam-style inch pound torque wrench as they are notorious for being inaccurate, especially at the low levels that are required for base to receiver and ring cap screws. I've been using a Snap-On dial type 0-75-0 with a 1/4" drive for the last four decades with complete satisfaction, but I'm sure that it's overkill for a beginner

I'm sure that you can find something suitable at Brownells or Midway. You might even be pleasantly surprised at Harbor Freight!

 

[SeanAce1]

well this looks like a decent deal:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=212172&t=11082005

I bought this base:
http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Optics-Remington-700-SA-RH-Base_W0QQitemZ120164173791QQihZ002QQcategoryZ52511QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Will 25 in/lbs strip my receiver or the aluminum in this base? Seem s like an awful lot for aluminum, but it is the only wrench available, I honestly cant even be sure its the same torx bit size

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

Most scope base manufacturers recommend something between 15 to 20 inch pounds on 6-48 screws but 25 might not be that excessive.
You won't strip the threads in your receiver using 25, and since the screws just go through non-threaded holes in yout base there's really no worry there.

I don't know what Torx size USO is using. Most use either T15 which is probably the most popular, but some use T1O. You can always get some T15 screws that will fit if you have to......
but ....

I'd advise you to find an adjustable torque wrench with a standard square drive,preferably 1/4" but 3/8" will do) so you can use it on your scope caps,normally under 25 inch pounds) and the scope ring to base nuts which are usually around 65 inch pounds. It also has the advantage of working with any of the Torx bits, Allen bits, etc. that you might need when you're working on your guns.