New Remington Rifles-Quality?

[swadiver]

My buddies and I have not seen an accurate out of the box Remington in well over a decade. Putting a new barrel on them usually fixes the problem, but that's expensive. Our experience is that out of the box Savages are a great bet for accuracy with the factory original barrel, and much cheaper to replace when the time comes, because it can be done at home.

+1

 

[284winner]

Have you seen the UTube about the manufacturing of a 700

. The rifles move slowly on a conveyor as parts are added while the conveyor is moving. Remington is proud of that. I haven't bought a new Remington in 20 years but have many old ones that have the nice polish and fit. Nearly all my old 700s have bolts tightly fitted to the action so there is no side play or bushing needed. Just ask a smith that trues up 700 actions and they will tell you the new ones need a ton of work compared to the ones made in the 60's -80's.

Not what mine tells me. He says the older ones need more work. Not as true. Maybe smoother and tighter. That don't make it shoot.

 

[AckleymanII]

We have had the sps stainless 243's and 223's, they are amazingly accurate, but I put them in a good stock, freefloated the bbls, also.

The long range series that were selling for cheap money recently are unreal tack drivers in 7 mag and 30/06 we have, bedded with a good trigger.

 

[nakneker]

I like the older 700s with the flat safety and the aluminum butt plate. I've had several of them and they didn't have some of the quality issues I see today. Today the modern 700 Is hit and miss. I have a VSSF that shoots great but the base holes are out of alignment, badly out. I had a factory new 700 a couple years ago with a broken ejector. It's hit and miss. Some shoot but have quality problems, some have zero problems, some are problem free and shoot. I don't use them anymore for custom builds, by the time you true and get them ready to receive a barrel you could just buy a Pierce, Stiller or whatever you like. Those custom actions maintain their value far better than a 700, whether it's been trued or not.

 

[tmx199]

I'm a die hard rem 700/7 fan the new ones are hit and miss if it don't shoot you can get it blue printed and rebarreled and a new stock and bedded. I do a little at a time on a gun when I have the extra money for it. I just ordered a 6xc from priemer accuracy on a rem 700 Hart barrel hs stock blue print action bed stock it was a long time saving the money. I also started to shoot cz 527 in .223 factory gun shoots 4 shot groups at the worst 3/8in. But I'm still a rem fan good luck with your choice!

 

[rebel]

I have been privileged enough to observe the the gun buying public in the 50 -75 mile radius around my gun shop for the past couple of years. No political comment at all but the economy is very depressed here. I have a mixed dynamic of customers. For the younger folks who may be just realizing a bit of expendable income, I see them gravitate to the 350 to 500 dollar rifle every time. With the folks on the lower end of the income scale, who may be older, they save and save, come in and tend to take a chance on a used rifle in the same range ( which was probably a step up when it was new from the aforementioned price range). This isn't set in stone and there are exceptions.
Bottom line is the hard working Americans who can afford a rifle tend to spend less than a weeks pay (net) on average for a hunting rifle. Marketing plays a huge part as well. Example- Ruger American vs. Ruger American Predator. Both decent, average priced hunting rifles. However the average guy feels as he has purchased "a better" rifle with the Predator because of a couple inches of barrel and a green stock. Not picking on Ruger, just a good example.
Older Remy's last around 30 mins in my shop for the guys looking for actions.
I am fortunate that my collection, while Savage heavy, includes Remingtons, Marlins, Tikka, the Black Guns, FAL and some odd ducks scattered in. They all shoot or wouldn't be in the vault. I just love rifles

 

[Willoughby]

Imho Savage is the best by design, I have a factory barreled 223 that will shoot 75 gr five shots under a dime at a hundred yards, getting ready to try some 75 and some 80amax next outing

 

[ranger140892]

Gotta agree with some of the negative posts. I've built on many 700's, old and new. I will not build on a newer 700 again. They're rough. Feed issues, inconsistent bolt face hardness, reduced mag capacity, etc. Not to mention the short actions have insufficient magazine length for most bullets in 308 Win. This includes newer model sevens. I still have a couple of old 700 receivers that'll I'll build on.

Funny how things come round, and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it. I ignored the Winchester model 70 rebirth until recently. But in the past year I've built on four 70's that are now my favorites. One was a pre FN, controlled feed, 16 tpi receiver that's now a 325 WSM. I noticed the machining was better than on the XTR's. Then I picked up a FN made 70 with 28 tpi and was really impressed. These receivers are nicer than the Montana Rifle Co. receivers, and they're forged instead of investment cast. And the rifles shot well out of the box, which was something I'd never seen from Winchester. I was pleased to see that 308 / 30-06 based receivers hold 5 rd's in magazine. The MOA trigger is not bad. I first bought Timney replacement but it just wasn't quite right. So I reworked the MOA triggers and they're great. There are a few more reasons I now like them over 700's. It's almost a shame to tear them apart and Ebay the stocks, bottom metal, and barrels. The claw extractor is fine, but Remington and old 70 XTR extractors work just as well at pulling the case out. But the model 70 / 98 Mauser type extractor makes for a much safer rifle in the event of a catastrophic failure. That's a personal concern since I shoot long guns left handed and still prefer right bolts. I've got four personal custom new generation 70's and two more NIB waiting for tear down.

 

[MildBill]

I concur with ranger140892's evaluation of the winchester model 70's and am looking to move in that direction myself.

 

[ranger140892]

Bill
They're fairly easy to build on. I true every receiver and have not seen one out of square yet. The cone breech is actually easier to machine than the 700 breech, with exception of the extractor cut, which is still a very simple milling operation. The factory one-piece bottom metal is well made, though for my personal builds I still replace it with steel units. I like the simplicity of the factory featherweight stocks, and have them on three rifles. Of course I float barrels and bed receivers. I also mill out the barrel channel and bed in a piece of channel aluminum for stiffness and stability. The fourth rifle has a McMillan featherweight copy. I'm pleased with them and prefer them and Sako L, & A series over 700's

 

[Ksmirk]

There's a reason gunsmith's like the Remington actions I've come to find that they keep them in business lol I pretty much have gone to using Savage actions for my rifles as there is very little work you have to do if any at all! have done a couple of Hows rifles and they are pretty fair as well but as far as for a Remington action my opinion they are worth about as much as the puppy mud I pick up in the back yard for an out of the box accurate rifle. Later,

Kirk

 

[ranger140892]

Kirk,
In all fairness, 700's are still attractive as out of the box and build guns because of the almost infinite amount of after market products. With the exception of re-barreling, just about any amateur can turn one into an accurate rifle. But again, I personally don't care to build on another one. You mentioned Howa's and I agree they're not bad. I haven't actually seen one in years, but the few I barreled were fine shooters. Most gunsmiths don't like, or cannot re-barrel metric receivers like Howa's but my lathe cuts metric threads as easily as tpi. In fact, I've built on several Mini Mauser receivers which are metric and I love those goofy little rifles. I've never been a Savage fan, but I understand that many a good shooter has been built on those receivers.

 

[MildBill]

Hi Ranger140892,

Have you done any work on the new haven made stainless classic actions?

I had a couple of those in the past when I was still very very green about what made rifles accurate, and not handloading yet.

In hindsite I wonder if their biggest problem was that pitiful very flexible price point stock they put on them...

I know that the workmanship at the end of the new haven area got a lot of shade thrown at it, and that certainly could have been contributing to the problem as well.

 

[Eric Leonard]

I have a New Haven built Model 70 Classic Featherweight with a nice Walnut stock and really nice deep blued bbl/action in 270 WSM,,it is my understanding it was built in the last year the NH plant was open,,its a really nice rifle that shoots good enough to hunt with but I would like to rebarrel it with the same bbl contour and at 25" long in the 6.5 Gap 4S,,,can I expect 1/2 MOA avg accuracy or should I just do another Stiller Tac action,,

 

[ranger140892]

Mildbill

Yes, I've built on all the model 70's. With exception of one XTR that had extreme misaligned tenon bore and threads, all trued up nicely and shot well. In fact, even the whacky one shot well. It was the only 220 Swift I've built. I was surprised

I'd like to find one of those stainless NH 70's in WSM to build another 325 on.

 

[Patton243]

Have bought some of their recent stuff and have some older stuff. I've had great luck with their varmint contour barrels in .223 and .308. In fact, I couldn't ask for better accuracy out of a factory tube. Their recent sporter barrels are OK for hunting and will hold MOA for 3 shots. What I do see is a canted recoil lug as well as a horrible finish on the blued (i.e. SPS/ADL) models. While I've not had rust issues (I keep them oiled), it does feel like there is grit in the action when running the bolt due to a rough bolt and raceway. I'll give $297 for a package Remington 700 from Wal-Mart. I won't give any more. Maybe I'm to blame.

Funny you mentioned about canted recoil lugs. My smith had to straighten mine out because it wouldn't sit correctly in the stock and the side of the barrel was touching the stock in one of their premium grade R-700s. It's a 5R generation 2 in a 308 with an HS Precision stock which is Remington's better factory rifles. Guess they can't get them right either. The gun shoots good for a factory 308 after my smith bedded it, but the QC of Remington has dropped significantly. And the long throats on these rifles are a pain in the ass too. You cannot get close to the lands in some cases with certain bullets. IMO, if you're on a budget, don't want to dump a lot of money into the rifle after you buy it, get a Savage. The Remington's will shoot very good if certain aspects are replaced or changed, but you'll dig deep into your wallet too.

 

[Phil]

CNC is only as good as the programmer and the "machinist" tending the machine. I have a Model 7 action with scope mounting holes .010 off center. The original barrel tenon was .008 off the centerline of the bore on the same rifle.

Must have been a Monday or a Friday.......

 

[DBLNUT]

I want to create a new .223 Remington 700. Some have stated that the quality of the new rifles is lacking. I was toying with a 700 VLS or other similar models. Anyone purchase one and either like or dislike it? I was looking at older 700s or puting one together. I will use 55 grain bullets in it.

Buy a new Tikka T3x in 223 with an 8" twist!

 

[1S2K]

In the past 3 years I have bought 4 Rem 700's. All but one of them were the high dollar models. And all 3 of these had to go back to Remington for lousy workmanship. One of them had a broken part in the bolt from the factory. Two of them would not chamber any brand of factory ammo without almost beating the bolt closed. As it turned out, they had been chambered to specs. Ive been a Remington man for 50 years but after this experience, I have bought my last new Remington. As an alternative, I have found the Tikkas Ive bought to be reliable and much more accurate right out of the box. YMMV.