New Mid-Range Game for AR's in 2016

[Tarleton_Texan]

This looks like a great way to get people started in competiton. A decent rifle with decent scope and off the shelf ammo 69-77 grain bullets could be very competitive. Hand loads would obviously be advantageous. Are there any matches scheduled yet? I would change optics on my 3gun rifle and give this a shot.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

In any pond, we must remove the big fish so that the smaller ones can flourish. That's why the F/TR guys have cookies!

 

[Curmudgeon]

Good Morning, many of the AR platforms that show at the range have muzzle brakes, has this been addressed in the rules when these rifles join mid range matches?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Good Morning, many of the AR platforms that show at the range have muzzle brakes, has this been addressed in the rules when these rifles join mid range matches?

That is a great question. I'd say It has been talked to death. On the other hand, most can be removed easily and replaced with a birdcage or thread protector. Better yet, someone could bring wrenches and an ultrasonic cleaner to the match and clean folks' brakes while they shoot the match.

I've run "outlaw" matches in the past. Guys with muzzle brakes shot with each other and any volunteers we had. I usually put the brakes at one end Of the line several spots from shooters without brakes (volunteers) and was always prepared to have braked rifles on a relay alone.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Brakes go along with hot brass flying. And lots of flash hiders are pinned and welded so you gotta allow em.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

But i dont think this is a solicitation for recommendations on rules- id imagine nothing we say here will ever make a difference and is probably already done

 

[Rtheurer]

Keep in mind there is a difference between a Flash Hider and a full Muzzle Break. THe JP style clam Shell break not legal, A normal A-2 Flash Hider is legal. However if a guy showed up for the first time at my match with said Break. I would let him shoot... on the end and over a scoash from my other shooters.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Initial query on this very subject to a HP Committee member on 12.14.2014

"How about a new game to encompass the single largest sporting rifle in the US? They aren't coming into course shooting with CMP or NRA...so, how about a new F-Class division, specifically for AR15's?

FTR-AR class for mid-range events (most every 600yd range in the US). Optics limited to 12X, retractable/collapsible bipod (like a Harris), no muzzle brakes, any rear bag (like F-TR) weight limit of 10-12# total and restricted to .223/5.56 only. Everybody and their brother owns an AR15. Keep it cheap, don't let the rules turn it into a high-dollar $$$ race....and they will come in droves.

I think that with proper visibility and promotion, it could have higher participation than F-Open and F-TR combined."

Interestingly, some influential F-TR shooters did not like the idea at all when they were queried on it. In fact, there response was, "The AR or .223 is already allowed in F-TR class".

 

[DE-F-Open]

Initial query on this very subject to a HP Committee member on 12.14.2014

"How about a new game to encompass the single largest sporting rifle in the US? They aren't coming into course shooting with CMP or NRA...so, how about a new F-Class division, specifically for AR15's?

FTR-AR class for mid-range events (most every 600yd range in the US). Optics limited to 12X, retractable/collapsible bipod (like a Harris), no muzzle brakes, any rear bag (like F-TR) weight limit of 10-12# total and restricted to .223/5.56 only. Everybody and their brother owns an AR15. Keep it cheap, don't let the rules turn it into a high-dollar $$$ race....and they will come in droves.

I think that with proper visibility and promotion, it could have higher participation than F-Open and F-TR combined."

Interestingly, some influential F-TR shooters did not like the idea at all when they were queried on it. In fact, there response was, "The AR or .223 is already allowed in F-TR class".

Mr. Ten-X,

It is interesting, indeed, to see your post, above. Apparently more than one member had the same or similar ideas.

The concept for Mid-Range Tactical AR initially came from an NRA member who sent an email to the Competitions Division suggesting something similar to the High Power Committee back in 2014. The idea was discussed by that committee during its meeting in November of 2014 and was referred to staff for further study.

Soon after President Cors was elected in the Spring of 2015, he directed all of the NRA's competitive shooting committees to explore new ideas and new "games" to bring more people to the range to shoot and compete. As a result of President Cors' tasking, the concept for Mid-Range Tactical AR was revived and was one of ten new concepts considered by the Committee in 2015. The NRA Board approved the concept and the Rules on a "provisional basis" during its meeting in January of this year.

So, the new Mid-Range Tactical AR concept originated with the NRA membership and with the shooters who shoot at the club level. It remains to be seen how much play it will get during the 2016 season, but from the other posts in this thread it looks like at least some clubs will be including "Tactical AR" in their Mid-Range programs.

It should be fun and will hopefully bring more AR shooters to the range.

DE-F-Open

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Thankfully, these are provisional rules.

The concept was to get as many AR's out of the closet as possible. On a numbers basis, the std 223/556 caliber far outweighs all other calibers or AR platforms (combined) and those are ones this game really should cater toward, to draw maximum interest. An AR10 in 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm will have a decided ballistic advantage over the 223/556 from 300-600yds. This immediately turns the game into an equipment race and it wasn't the intent.

Hindsight being 20/20, CMP/NRA has now limited magnification for AR service rifles in their new optics class. Had I known this 15 months ago, I'd have suggested to stand fast on that rule for this new game. With more total interest, the chances of an optics company tailoring products to fit the bill would be enhanced.

I do like a SAAMI length rule (effectively mag length) so that those with a 223/556 would be competitive with 68/69/75/77 grain bullets. This way, more closet queens would not be at a severe disadvantage if they were std 1:9 to 1:7 twist (obviously, the 1:9 twist would use the lighter fodder). It makes for a wind-reading and wind-strategy game as opposed to who can spend the most $$$. I believe that aspect would appeal to a greater audience.

Had the opportunity to fire an AR in this configuration 3X during a 300yd practice day using SIE77MK's on the 300M reduced target. It was "challenging" to say the least.

 

[dantiff2]

This may just very well be a stepping stone to the future of competitive AR discipline shooting. If the turnout is large enough. I would think the opinions that have been discussed in this thread would make it to the top.

In my opinion, There will need to be caliber segregation. Like has already been said a few times. No one is (myself included) going to put their 223/5.56, 1 in 9 twist up against someone with an 8 twist 6 or 6-1/2 mm. Custom barrels or triggers just are not that big of deal when there are factory guns shooting just as competitively without all the bells and whistles. So keep it simple.... All mag fed, have a 223/5.56 class, a class for everything "custom" (i.e. not 223 or 308) and a straight 308/7.62. This would see the most versatile competition and enjoyment because with the optic limit you are truly at a conditions matter skill level.

Dan

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I see a lot of great ideas on this thread. As a provisional game, I think the match director could implement any additional divisions as needed to make things fun and fair for the competitors (assuming enough people show up to shoot).

With that in mind, at 300, caliber almost doesn't matter. At 600, the ballistic advantages would definitely be there, but the large target face would absorb some of the advantage.

In the end, I think the best marksman will win regardless of caliber - we figured out in F-open that wind drift (within reason) has less to do with score than we believed.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So is this saying i can put a 12x scope on my all out compass lake service rifle, rig up a harris bipod and compete with it? If i get it down to 14lbs and put a factory trigger in it?

 

[swehrman]

So is this saying i can put a 12x scope on my all out compass lake service rifle, rig up a harris bipod and compete with it? If i get it down to 14lbs and put a factory trigger in it?

That's pretty much the rifle that they're targeting. It doesn't need a factory trigger, it just needs to be 4.5 lbs like an existing service rifle. There are quite a few two stage match triggers that meet the 4.5lb requirement.

-- Scott

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Im in if i run across a match then. Wont take but a min to get my gun ready. The shelf built ARs dont stand a chance if they allow guns like that

 

[swehrman]

I have to agree with the other posters that think this should be shot on the F-Class target. High master service rifle shooters can already shoot 199's and 200's on the 600 yard target using slings and iron sights. Give them a bipod and a scope and under the right conditions you'll start to see high X count cleans.

It's odd that the PDF states that this isn't F-Class, yet the equipment would be legal in F-Open or F-TR depending upon the cartridge the rifle is chambered in. It almost seems as if the whole point of this new class is to stroke the ego of a new shooter.

-- Scott

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Do you think this class of gun could really compete with an f/tr gun or better yet a marginal f-open gun on a machine rest? The scope alone is a handicap not to mention no proper rear bag or sled bipod or 90gr bullets.

 

[mac86951]

I see a lot of great ideas on this thread. As a provisional game, I think the match director could implement any additional divisions as needed to make things fun and fair for the competitors (assuming enough people show up to shoot).

With that in mind, at 300, caliber almost doesn't matter. At 600, the ballistic advantages would definitely be there, but the large target face would absorb some of the advantage.

In the end, I think the best marksman will win regardless of caliber - we figured out in F-open that wind drift (within reason) has less to do with score than we believed.

I happen to know that there was some idea of this back a few years ago. John Dink created something like this using an F-class target. I'll admit that this isn't the same thing; however, some of the data does apply.

Using a 20" barrel with mag fed 77gr (honestly fed from magazine), my high score is a 385/400 at 600y. (Two strings of 20). Put me on a high-power target

So is this saying i can put a 12x scope on my all out compass lake service rifle, rig up a harris bipod and compete with it?

Yup. I know a good CL

Im in if i run across a match then. Wont take but a min to get my gun ready. The shelf built ARs dont stand a chance if they allow guns like that

Agreed.

By eliminating the allowance of

Do you think this class of gun could really compete with an f/tr gun or better yet a marginal f-open gun on a machine rest? The scope alone is a handicap not to mention no proper rear bag or sled bipod or 90gr bullets.

Locally, we've been running a class like this for years. Our local class is for 223 only, we restrict to magazine length ammo, and while we dont restrict barrel length, several of us are running 20" barrels. That said, we are using folding bipods, 40x optics and rabbit ear bags. My average at 600y is in the 380s/400, and we are really windy here. F/tr (always 308) is usually a few points ahead of us in same conditions, but wind skills can change that.

In my opinion, given the restrictions this should quickly be an X-ring game. I don't see restriction to magazine or SAAMI ammo, which means the shooter who handloads will win. Locally we've had many shooters, never have we found factory ammo competitive at 600y, but I'll assume it's possible to have a rifle that will; it'll be a no-go vs a handloaded 80gr single fed.

Locally, keeping ammo to 2.260" or less has kept it interesting. We've got our #1 who uses a Sinclair bipod, 77OTM, and has very good wind practice. Occasionally we'll have an upset by someone shooting a 69/70gr, so I see a 1:9, 1:8, 1:7 all competitive. Given the NRA rules, I'll be loading 80s for sure since I no longer have the rabbit ear bag, and only 12x.

Or move to a different caliber. 308 might be unruly with the weight restriction, but 6mmAR should do nicely. Maybe even 6.5 Grendel.
-Mac

 

[DBailey]

This seems to be a fun class aimed at getting people into competitive shooting for the first time. That's a great thing for all of us. As the amount of exposure to new people goes up so will the amount of new dedicated competitors.
My question is, since this is a class for new competitors to use just about any old AR that's in their safe and have fun why would any established competitive shooter want to take their race gun and demoralize the new people? That's about the same as a Varsity track star being proud of winning a Kindergarten field day. I believe if you want to play in this class it should be to help advance the new people.

 

[mac86951]

This seems to be a fun class aimed at getting people into competitive shooting for the first time. That's a great thing for all of us. As the amount of exposure to new people goes up so will the amount of new dedicated competitors.
My question is, since this is a class for new competitors to use just about any old AR that's in their safe and have fun why would any established competitive shooter want to take their race gun and demoralize the new people? That's about the same as a Varsity track star being proud of winning a Kindergarten field day. I believe if you want to play in this class it should be to help advance the new people.

Wasn't that the intent of F-TR?