New Mid-Range Game for AR's in 2016

[effendude]

Wasn't that the intent of F-TR?

F-TR was the original F-class game. .223 and .308 match rifles with scopes put on them. Originated in Canada. Unfortunately, those benchrest guys decided to come over and shoot on their bellies too! Just kidding!

Scott

 

[Dusty Stevens]

All you gotta do is make it mag fed only

 

[mac86951]

If there was some way of specifying/ensuring unmodified mags, I completely agree with you. However, I've recently discussed the topic of COAL in other posts here with individuals that have figured out how to load .223 rounds to as long as 2.4" to 2.5" (or more) COAL by a relatively simple modification of the mag. It'd be far easier to have a simple little plastic/metal GO/NO-GO type gauge to measure COAL and ensure compliance.

I seem to recall that someone once had a magazine that loaded the 223 diagonally (effectively making it a "crooked" single stack. COL then became the length from corner to corner diagonal, and would always feed off of one feed ramp.

Using a device like that would allow the 223 to complete with an equivalent 2.800" 308 at 600y; however, this continues to deviate away from "entry level" as intended...

Considering that the chance to get a new class perfect on initial release is very small, I just hope that the class first gets a lot of attention and draws a lot of competitors, thus justifying improvements if needed.

My interest is piqued enough that I might just pick up a 12x scope and try it out locally anyway. I could use the practice.

-Mac

 

[jj789]

been down part of this road before, ask the shooters what they want, do not make up rules for ar's if you are not an ar shooter.
bench rest crowd tried and failed because they refused to listen to the actual ar shooters. do they shoot, yes, and shoot well when built well.
I have two I use for pd shooting. no issues.

 

[DR1586]

I'm glad I don't own stock in a sling manufacturer. Seems like folks are very hesitant to try position shooting. There are countless clinics, events, etc, out there to get engaged in high power. But it takes people being able to use a rest to get interested. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but we as a shooting community are walking away from a valuable skill set.

My hat is off to the NRA for thinking outside the box. But I don't like the direction we're headed.

 

[swehrman]

I'm glad I don't own stock in a sling manufacturer. Seems like folks are vet hesitant to try position shooting. There are countless clinics, events, etc, out there to get engaged in high power. But it takes people being able to use a rest to get interested. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but we as a shooting community are walking away from a valuable skill set.

My hat is off to the NRA for thinking outside the box. But I don't like the direction we're headed.

I couldn't agree more. We're becoming less and less a nation of skilled rifleman, and more a nation of those who are afraid to try and fail for fear of embarrassing their manhood.

-- Scott

 

[jj789]

we do not shoot rifles in the mil...we shoot carbine or less with dot optics.
it is time for the nra.cmp/dcm to move into the 20th century...maybe even the 21st.
the three positions used at 2/3/600 make you a target in all but prone.
the need for accurate shooters is still there..the format needs to change.
snipers and dm's are few and far between.
yes I use to shoot all three positions.

 

[DR1586]

JJ,

There are already shooting sports out there that focus on prone or shooting from cover with rifles and carbines. Highpower doesn't need to change as a shooting sport, although the equipment should keep pace as always. The issue isn't the correlation between military training and competitive shooting. The issue is that highpower is difficult and it takes time and practice to get better. Our society is becoming one that craves instant gratification, so the prospect of having to work your tail off to avoid shooting wide 5's standing makes people look for an easier option.

I know there are many that disagree with me, but I've seen it first-hand and I know this to be the case.

 

[Jon Leonard]

I'm building an AR-15 upper to shoot this new game. I've shot highpower and f-class at a local level, and I see this as a sort of cross between them. I can use a relatively inexpensive rifle, in my case about $375...using a bolt and lower I already have + whatever scope I end up with. When I want to, I can switch the 12x scope for a 4x one and use it as a service rifle.

The crossover possibility with a single rifle is very appealing.

 

[XTR]

JJ,

There are already shooting sports out there that focus on prone or shooting from cover with rifles and carbines. Highpower doesn't need to change as a shooting sport, although the equipment should keep pace as always. The issue isn't the correlation between military training and competitive shooting. The issue is that highpower is difficult and it takes time and practice to get better. Our society is becoming one that craves instant gratification, so the prospect of having to work your tail off to avoid shooting wide 5's standing makes people look for an easier option.

I know there are many that disagree with me, but I've seen it first-hand and I know this to be the case.

You acknowledge the issues facing HP yet you seem unhappy with the option presented to get more people involved. Would you rather hold your ground and keep HP, service rifle in particular, unchanged until it withered and died, because it looks to me like that is what has been happening. Gone are the days when Viale was full, these days it looks like less than ½ is used during HP week. Blame it on what ever you want, but the reality is that there are a whole host of people out there who for what ever reason have zero interest in sling and irons.

The NRA missed the boat on action pistol in the 80s and stuck to shooting one handed with the the other in your pocket. Competition in 2 handed, action pistol classes is stratospherically beyond the bullseye game. What I'll call PRS type rifle shooting is running like wild at the ranges that can hold it. Actual PRS matches sell out months in advance and if you look over on Snipers Hide there are people selling their slots at some shoots. Have you noticed that the Prize table at a local PRS match can be greater than everything handed out at The National Matches at Camp Perry. The reality is that other than F class the NRA shooting programs have been dwindling everywhere.

Personal example... I lived literally across the street from Oak Ridge from 1995 until I moved outside of town in 2010. Until I discovered F class I was never in any way interested in long range shooting. Slings, coats and sights designed for the sole purpose of shooting at a round target just did nothing for me. (still don't) Even service rifle looked like more of an an investment to bother to try, face it there isn't a lot of other use for that coat and glove other than shooting on the range if you find it's not working for you, and as someone who is pretty OCD about his competitions, it didn't look worth bothering with out one. Today, at 55, I'd really like to give SR a whirl, particularly with the change to allow scopes.

For me personally this new class isn't overly appealing; I'd rather shoot one my F-TR rifles, but it may get some more people on the line if it's promoted. It won't work if guys show up and get called names and dissed the way the "Death before F Class" crowd did/does at Camp Perry, and the NRA needs something to get people in the door because what they have now isn't working.

The above is in no way intended to be throwing stones at the traditional NRA HP shooting disciplines. Some of it is just an expression of my opinion.

 

[DRNewcomb]

The NRA will likely never allow suppressors, or brakes, ....

Brakes: no; out of consideration for other shooters. Suppressors: maybe. The only argument against them is that the line boss needs to know when someone shoots.

My issue with the proposed rules is that they are too loosey-goosey. For instance: "competitive style stocks such as those commonly found on Match Rifles, Palma Rifles and F-Class Rifles are prohibited." but "Tactical stocks with an adjustable cheek piece and/or an adjustable butt plate are permitted." Will someone tell me just what the frack that means? Any stock that's legal on a match rifle is illegal in this new class? What is not "commonly used" today is required equipment tomorrow. Were it up to me, it would be much clearer and more restrictive.

 

[XTR]

Totally agree that the rules are terribly written.

 

[boltman13]

Totally agree that the rules are terribly written.

I am the Match Director at my Club and we shoot 200 yd reduced course matches using the NMC. Our participation has dropped off sharply and we have very few new or younger shooters. I plan to offer the Tactical Mid Range course of fire with the existing NRA provisional rules for those wishing to try it. I plan to run the matches concurrently with the regular HP match. I'll have the Tactical shooters fire 20 shots for record plus 2 sighters while HP does standing on the 300 yd reduced target, then have the Tactical people fire 20 shots for record and 2 sighters on the 600 yd reduced target along with HP at 600. The gap where HP shoots the 2 rapid fire matches may be optional if Tactical shooters want to try it. If it catches on and we start getting a good turnout I would consider having separate matches on different days. Hopefully some of the Tactical shooters might even give HP a try.

 

[GLShooter]

If I read this right a free float tactical tube would be legal or am I confused?

Greg

 

[XTR]

for the "tactical" provisional version it's pretty much legal as long as a bullet comes out the front when you pull the trigger.

 

[GLShooter]

for the "tactical" provisional version it's pretty much legal as long as a bullet comes out the front when you pull the trigger.

The funny thing is I got a 20" 243 LBC barrel accidentally and I would think a guy could set his scope at 12X and be GTG. Digging up a proper trigger might be a problem as I never run anything that heavy.

I know a police tactical M/O rifle is far different than a street/car carried stick. The rules are so wide open my 223 FTR would make it as I read this.

Greg

 

[jseines]

NRA Mid-Range (Prone) Tactical Rifle (AR)

For those clubs and match directors who have members with AR's who want to shoot Mid-Range Prone but who don't want (or can't afford) to shoot traditional "sling" or F-Class, we have a new opportunity to get those AR's out of the closet and onto the range with very little in the way of additional costs:

It's called Mid-Range Tactical Rifle (AR). A copy of the description and the Rules (Provisional) are attached as a PDF file and should be published by NRA very soon... CAUTION - these are NOT official.... but I think they are accurate:

In brief, here's how it works:

1. To be fired concurrently with any other Mid-Range event, alongside of F-Class & "sling"
2. Fired on the "sling targets"
3. Rifle as follows:
..........223/5.56 up to & including .308/7.62; overall weight not more than 14 lbs; Harris-type "tactical bipod"; scope not more than 12x; bbl not more than 20"; trigger pull not less than 4.5 lbs;
4. This is NOT F-Class - this is designed to be closer to "tactical" - - F-Class competition gear is generally illegal; competition stocks are generally illegal.... designed to attract more law enforcement and/or military (maybe local National Guard?) and other "tactical shooters" out to the range shooting for precision.....

For more info check out the attached PDF file......

Sent as an FYI,

DE-F-Open

 

[GLShooter]

That as that is a cut and paste I posted but I am trying to get more guidance from the NRA. If it truly must be an AR profile I'll have a barrel in my hands chambered in 243 with a DPMS free float HG aseembky in the next 45 days.

Greg

 

[XTR]

The 20" barrel part is going to play havoc with most of the AR-10ish platforms. I doubt that they will gain much advantage over the 223s shooting 80s at 600 yards.

The whole idea of this is to get people in, it is provisional, there will be no classifications and no records, and in a yr or so the rules will change and the game beater ideas will be non-allowed. (though that 243 barrel listed above probably won't last too long)

Building something just for this class seems down right silly to me. Building something you want, and shooting it in this class, well, that sounds like fun.

 

[GLShooter]

The 20" barrel part is going to play havoc with most of the AR-10ish platforms. I doubt that they will gain much advantage over the 223s shooting 80s at 600 yards.

The whole idea of this is to get people in, it is provisional, there will be no classifications and no records, and in a yr or so the rules will change and the game beater ideas will be non-allowed. (though that 243 barrel listed above probably won't last too long)

Building something just for this class seems down right silly to me. Building something you want, and shooting it in this class, well, that sounds like fun.

For me it's just another reason to shoot. A 243LBC will last a long time if my other four are any indication. A couple thousand rounds will be fine based on the huge scoring rings. I just ordered a new Savage barrel as I want it available after this summer soI'll be ready this winter. By then that 0.5 MOA X will be elusive so I'm starting early building up my consumables.

I don't own an AR That fits in this class that wouldn't require a change in something. My guns are mostly bull barrels or the 223's I do have have full time carry handles. Laying on my belly with any AR shooting out to 500 or so is always s challenge no matter what the bore size.

I figure they will go to the F-CLASS target in a year as shooting a clean won't be that hard. X count will be the deciding factor.

Greg