New Compact LabRadar at NRA Exhibits.

[6.5 forever]

I don't know much about the Garmins!! But one feature of the LRs is the multiple down range velocities! When I have a little more time on my hands, I'm going to start looking at the drag of instability vs stability drag!!! Until the bullet gets to stability, it experiences higher drag and a faster deceleration of velocity than a bullet in true stable flight.

I have 105 hrs of pure applied science, BS physics and AS Mathematics!!! I can say this: The muzzle velocity from chronographs is a mathematical backtrack calculation and could not be true muzzle velocity!!! They are really close, but how close??? One way to find true muzzle velocity using a ultra high speed video with a measuring scale close to the muzzle in the background!! Knowing the distance of the objective lens and to the centerline of the bore, and the distance from the bore axis to the measuring scale, we can account for angular measuring error!! The camera is a single point and the distances have different length rays!!! Using trig, and knowing the ray lengths and angles, the calculation of true travel distance can be calculated!! With that true measured distance, and knowing how many frames are in that distance, time of flight for that distance can be calculated!!! Simple physic now!!! True muzzle velocity equals the true distance traveled divided by the time of flight for that distance!!

Thus the reason for truing your dope down range.

 

[Multiracer]

Compact er ?

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Well if the marketing people would just come here and asked us what we want, they could design the perfect one. Like it turn it’s self on when hears the bolt close and maybe sniff your ammo box and plug in all the data it needs,

 

[Knotwild]

Five bucks says you’ll do what I did- Walk in your local shop, see that cute little bugger in person- what’s cash price-owner says $570- you walk out with the new toy.

No, not me. I can get 7800 rounds of Norma TAC 22lr for that and keep myself occupied for a long time.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

It’s called the Labrador “LX”. Good review against the Garmin. The new LR-LX looks like a solid unit.

I’m gonna wait for the new Labrador

 

[Fast14riot]

From what I've read over the past few months of the Labradar LX vs Garmin Xero C1, the LR is 60ghz radar, which shortens the range of detection, has on board audio trigger but can use the original trigger, and still has downrange velocity. Garmin is 24ghz radar which is a low power system but has a very short detection window (no downrange velocity) and greater battery life. LR has a cast aluminum enclosure, Garmin is plastic. LR is keeping the original unit in the lineup to offer, I suspect, an entry point or significant difference in data collection. Utilizes same app, according to LR as well.

I've been looking at some radar sensor chips, processor boards and the associated programming. Seems a DIY version for under $150 in parts is feasible. I also suspect this particular market segment is going to see an explosion in the coming years with price battles and technology advances.

 

[mike mccormick]

Labradar could have kept their market share much better if they would have supported the original product. They obviously wanted to sell units, but had no intent to provide customer support or provide upgrades. When mine dies, it won't be replaced by a LR product.

 

[swd]

My shooting buddy who has already has a Labrador borrowed my Garmin a couple days ago because he likes it so much better. Says he can’t justify spending the money on a new Garmin but he sure likes to use mine, lol.

 

[Fire Dog]

My shooting buddy who has already has a Labrador borrowed my Garmin a couple days ago because he likes it so much better. Says he can’t justify spending the money on a new Garmin but he sure likes to use mine, lol.

Exactly the same for me, all the Lab Radar folks now want to borrow my Garmin because the Lab Radar is a hassle to transport, set up and misses shots….
My Garmin rides in a small pouch found on Amazon and it can just as easily be shoved in a back pocket. Have an aftermarket tripod that is slightly taller and can be extended up to 6” and has a ball joint head to sort out non level surfaces such as F Open mounds.
Have recorded several hundred shot strings and NEVER missed one…
The Lab Radar that one person shot side by side with my Garmin, missed 8 out of 10 shots…!
This unit had the rifle mounted trigger device as well.
Just plunk down the Garmin and as long as it is basically pointing down range it will record every shot without any special “Sighting In“ like the LR.
Oh yea, did I mention that the battery in the Gamin last about 4-5 times longer than the Lab Radar unit….
Weeks go by before I put it on charge! My friend‘s LR won’t make the day without a recharge… He even carries a larger external battery to keep it going.

 

[jxb]

It drives me SO crazy. I hated it about the LR, got excited that the bluetooth app would do it, but BT never worked...

Now we have an awesome garmin, but it's like 72 button presses to start a new string. It keeps me up at night.

well on the garmin it's something like either 5 or 8 to end a session and start a new one depending whether you leave bullet weight prompt active or not. Not quite 72 but yeah it would be nice if they would add something like hold down a button other than power/return for X seconds to end session and start a new one with the same settings. That's a fairly simple firmware change, or should be.

 

[Tommie]

Garmin fired a shot across the bow of the chronograph industry. Granted people just love their Brand X chronograph but let’s face it: all of a sudden the other players are scrambling. Kudos to Garmin. Will there eventually be better, cheaper, more compact models from all players? Undoubtedly. But the fact is that the Garmin is now the yardstick by which all others are compared. In the meantime I have no doubt that the new updated Garmin is already in the works.

 

[rijndael]

The problem with LR's new product is it's still a product of LR. They seem to do whatever they can to not fix bugs and fulfill their initial promises.

 

[vonb]

I looked at when I purchased the LabRadar and it was in 2019 for $634. That was with all of the options (battery, stand, etc.) I then had issues with it triggering so I purchased a sight for it as well as a JKL trigger and a hard case. Needless to say it put me back some money. After all that, it's not 100% on detecting shots.

I just picked up a new Garmin this week for $506 shipped. I had to try it out immediately so set it up in the to test with a .177 pellet rifle. It detected speeds of ~840 fps right out of the gate. No fiddling with aiming, etc.

To say that Garmin has squashed the competition is an understatement. LabRadar revolutionized the chrono industry and I believe that Garmin may have perfected it.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

There was NO compact Doppler radar chronograph units on the market when Labradar came out. They completely changed the game. Did it have bugs? Yeah, what new technology doesn’t. Was it hard to use for some folks that aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed? Definitely. But Labradar revolutionized the chronograph in a way that we all enjoyed.

So when I hear people say “Garmin has squashed the competition”, it sounds so stupid. Garmin wasn’t even the first to produce a compact radar unit. They used designs and technology from other companies. They didn’t make anything new, they just made it smaller. Yeah the Garmin is great, but give credit where credit is due. The Garmin wouldn’t even exist if Labradar hadn’t revolutionized the industry with their design first.

 

[hogpatrol]

Ledd, Good points. Unfortunately if you're not leading, you might as well be dead last and for me, LR isn't leading.

 

[rijndael]

Garmin wasn’t even the first to produce a compact radar unit. They used designs and technology from other companies.

Maybe. But this isn't Garmin's first jump in to radar tech. Garmin has been doing small radar units for years, just not for ballistics. Garmin's Golf radar came out a couple of years ago, this is probably a variation of what we have for ballistics. I have a radar based rear taillight for my bike, I've had it since 2020, but they came out in 2015 or so.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

Thus the reason for truing your dope down range.

Very true!!! But, if we use all the tools available at the beginning of load development, the shooter can spend less time in fine tuning for down range where environmental forces have a greater impact!!! Here is the deal, I understand frequency, wave form, harmonics (constructive and destructive), and nodes and their associated mathematics!!! I also understand the forces in rotation dynamics, thermodynamics (study of heat which is the bases for internal ballistic), physical chemistry (solid fuel to plasma gas combustion reaction inside the case), mechanics (Newtonian physics), fluid mechanics (air is a fluid of lower density), and a reloader, shooter for 50 years!!! I wanted to be a ballistician but the military was downsizing and centralizing all the testing grounds and labs in the early 70s!!! There were more professionals in that field than jobs!! I choose engineering instead!!!

Since I'm retired, I'm going to do the research I never got to do!!! I'm going to make do with the tools I have and knowledge is the key!!! I have several hypothesis that need testing and data collection, statistics, and probability analysis in order to make a case for theories!!! I'm going to start getting an understanding of bullet stability passing through the hot, high density, and high pressure strata cloud, in front of and around the muzzle, of gases caused by 1) compressed air shoved out of the barrel in front of the bullet like a piston 2) hot and high speed bypass gases in the barrel/bullet boundary mixing and adding to the compressed cloud 3) the faster than the bullet hot plasma ejection mixing with the cloud!! My hypothesis is a balanced bullet (center of mass located close to the middle of the bullet) should stabilize (minimize torque induced tipping or upsetting) better than an offset bullet (center of mass located more towards the tip or base)!! Basically, Im looking at the torque differences from the center of mass and deltas (differences) of frontal areas causing drag and the harmonics!! It could also achieve stability faster in it's flight in a normal environment and may hit down range faster!!! If the hypothesis is correct, it could minimize down range tuning!!! If the bullet can stabilize faster in that cloud, it could also dampen or buffer harmonics caused by radial forces and/or converging mach cones (high and low pressure fluxes) in the much lower density environment (surroundings in thermodynamics)!!!

With the new LRLX, I could use the older LR in tandem with the new LX and collect twice as much data and have a better confirmation of valid data!!! This would dramatically aid in deriving the theory!!!

 

[vonb]

There was NO compact Doppler radar chronograph units on the market when Labradar came out. They completely changed the game. Did it have bugs? Yeah, what new technology doesn’t. Was it hard to use for some folks that aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed? Definitely. But Labradar revolutionized the chronograph in a way that we all enjoyed.

So when I hear people say “Garmin has squashed the competition”, it sounds so stupid. Garmin wasn’t even the first to produce a compact radar unit. They used designs and technology from other companies. They didn’t make anything new, they just made it smaller. Yeah the Garmin is great, but give credit where credit is due. The Garmin wouldn’t even exist if Labradar hadn’t revolutionized the industry with their design first.

Ledd Slinger,
It seems as though I've insulted you. Not my intention. When you spend $600+ on a LabRadar and it arrives DOA, it tends to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Per LabRadar's notes to me, it had a bad acoustic sensor. Did they make it right? Yes they did. It wasn't that it was a lack of understanding how to use the technology...Hence the sharpest tool in the shed comment. There were other challenges with the unit such as multiple shooters on the line and all using the same frequency. It caused interference and lack of readings. Knowing to change frequencies fixed that but was an indication of needing to tinker with it. I could go on but no reason to. Yes, Lab Radar revolutionized the market. However, Garmin is going to eat their lunch if their response to Garmin is the new, smaller unit.

Have you tried the new Garmin? If not, try it and come back with your thoughts. I think you'll be surprised. The fact that I could drop it on the bench and not worry about precise aiming and it picked up every shot was pleasurable. The LabRadar won't register .17 cal. Nor 4k+ fps rounds. I liked my LabRadar but the market has outpaced them at this time.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd, Good points. Unfortunately if you're not leading, you might as well be dead last and for me, LR isn't leading.

yeah competition is healthy. I think labradar sat on their haunches enjoying the crown a little too long and got blind sided by a big tech company. But they are answering the challenge now with the new LX so let the games begin! It will benefit us all. After watching initial reviews, I think the LX is gonna give Garmin a good hit. The new LX appears to be a better quality unit

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd Slinger,
It seems as though I've insulted you. Not my intention. When you spend $600+ on a LabRadar and it arrives DOA, it tends to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Per LabRadar's notes to me, it had a bad acoustic sensor. Did they make it right? Yes they did. It wasn't that it was a lack of understanding how to use the technology...Hence the sharpest tool in the shed comment. There were other challenges with the unit such as multiple shooters on the line and all using the same frequency. It caused interference and lack of readings. Knowing to change frequencies fixed that but was an indication of needing to tinker with it. I could go on but no reason to. Yes, Lab Radar revolutionized the market. However, Garmin is going to eat their lunch if their response to Garmin is the new, smaller unit.

Have you tried the new Garmin? If not, try it and come back with your thoughts. I think you'll be surprised. The fact that I could drop it on the bench and not worry about precise aiming and it picked up every shot was pleasurable. The LabRadar won't register .17 cal. Nor 4k+ fps rounds. I liked my LabRadar but the market has outpaced them at this time.

Yeah the original has its flaws and limits we all know about. That wasn’t my point. I’m not gonna trash talk LR until I see how the new LX performs as they answer the challenge.

You’re not a champion until you defend your title in my opinion. Garmin took the crown for now, but they haven’t defended it like LR has for years against all others. And maybe Garmin will keep the crown. Not sure, but it will be interesting to see what fruit comes from these two competing companies.