New Compact LabRadar at NRA Exhibits.

[Krogen]

It drives me SO crazy. I hated it about the LR, got excited that the bluetooth app would do it, but BT never worked...

Now we have an awesome garmin, but it's like 72 button presses to start a new string. It keeps me up at night.

If you haven't already, go into the settings menu and turn off the setup graphics and bullet weight entry. I don't need to be reminded where to place the Garmin each time I use it, nor do I really care about power factor. I'm interested in velocity and its associated statistics. With the extraneous stuff disabled, it's only a few pushes to get things rolling.

 

[RS243]

My Labradar tracked a .177 caliber Pellet from a Crossman pump up pellet gun out to 70 yards. It was only 350 to 380 fps, so maybe it was able to track it because it was so slow. I put the settings on doppler trigger and archery.

 

[Dimner]

From what I've read over the past few months of the Labradar LX vs Garmin Xero C1, the LR is 60ghz radar, which shortens the range of detection, has on board audio trigger but can use the original trigger, and still has downrange velocity. Garmin is 24ghz radar which is a low power system but has a very short detection window (no downrange velocity) and greater battery life. LR has a cast aluminum enclosure, Garmin is plastic. LR is keeping the original unit in the lineup to offer, I suspect, an entry point or significant difference in data collection. Utilizes same app, according to LR as well.

I've been looking at some radar sensor chips, processor boards and the associated programming. Seems a DIY version for under $150 in parts is feasible. I also suspect this particular market segment is going to see an explosion in the coming years with price battles and technology advances.

I tell you right now, if LR LX has downrange ability, that goes a very long way in my deciding to purchase.During shot show this year the word on the street was that it wouldn't have that ability.

On the flip side if they release this new version with that same dumpster fire of an app. That is very close to a deal breaker.

Someone mentioned how Garmin is a company started by super smart people. Can't argue with that. And I think those smart people were smart enough to hire the right people in areas where they were not experts.

I think lab radar was too, but those super smart people knew tons about radar and nothing about User interfaces and app development. Then they hired 3rd string replacements to develop the interface and app.

I'm not a LR hater like alot of people here. But their continued failure on the mobile app is a blunder that should get people fired.

 

[Dimner]

Video states it only can show additional velocities down range out to about 20 yards. Which is pretty much a why bother. Not going to get much information from that

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd, Good points. Unfortunately if you're not leading, you might as well be dead last and for me, LR isn't leading.

Yeah for now, but this race is just getting started. The new LX micro unit from LR will be out soon enough. I’d rather sit back and see how things turn out to get the best value and performance for my money. Everyone always wants to jump on the first new and shiny thing they see. I’m gonna wait and see how this competition plays out. Not saying the Garmin isn’t great, but if the 2 units are gonna be at the same price point and one performs a little better or is a little more durable and trouble free than the other, that’s where my money will go. I have had absolutely zero issues with my original LR over the last 4 years so I’m in no rush

 

[Knotwild]

As money loses more and more of it's value (inflation), I predict that the public (me and you) will find it necessary to purchase essential items (you know, like toilet paper); which will leave us less money to buy new items just because we want them. When sales slow, companies like Lab Radar and Caldwell might start to lower prices to entice purchasers.

I saw it happen in the early 1980's and they say history repeats itself.

 

[Straightshooter1]

The magneto would be the best for getting a really close true muzzle velocity!!! That would be ALMOST as accurate as the high speed video!!!

Just how accurate do we really need to be?

I've been using MagnetoSpeed for some time and waiting for something more reliable than the LR. Along comes Garmin and took the plunge. First thing I did was set them up to comparer velocity readings, including comparing neighboring shooter's LR readings. None of the radar readings were much different than what I got on my MagnetoSpeed V3. The Garmin readings are plenty close enough to the MS readings for doing what we're doing with them, IMHO.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I tell you right now, if LR LX has downrange ability, that goes a very long way in my deciding to purchase.During shot show this year the word on the street was that it wouldn't have that ability.

On the flip side if they release this new version with that same dumpster fire of an app. That is very close to a deal breaker.

Someone mentioned how Garmin is a company started by super smart people. Can't argue with that. And I think those smart people were smart enough to hire the right people in areas where they were not experts.

I think lab radar was too, but those super smart people knew tons about radar and nothing about User interfaces and app development. Then they hired 3rd string replacements to develop the interface and app.

I'm not a LR hater like alot of people here. But their continued failure on the mobile app is a blunder that should get people fired.

Finding and hiring people that really knows how and can produce a good user interface has been a problem since the beginning of electronic devices and computing. Apparently, it's a rare talent.

 

[rwj]

There was NO compact Doppler radar chronograph units on the market when Labradar came out. They completely changed the game. Did it have bugs? Yeah, what new technology doesn’t. Was it hard to use for some folks that aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed? Definitely. But Labradar revolutionized the chronograph in a way that we all enjoyed.

So when I hear people say “Garmin has squashed the competition”, it sounds so stupid. Garmin wasn’t even the first to produce a compact radar unit. They used designs and technology from other companies. They didn’t make anything new, they just made it smaller. Yeah the Garmin is great, but give credit where credit is due. The Garmin wouldn’t even exist if Labradar hadn’t revolutionized the industry with their design first.

Garmin has been a player in aircraft avionics (including with the DOD) for years. Doppler radar is not a new technology/market for them, only its application to a chronograph.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Garmin has been a player in aircraft avionics (including with the DOD) for years. Doppler radar is not a new technology/market for them, only its application to a chronograph.

Yeah Doppler is not a new tech for anything utilizing it. I was talking about it being in a compact portable application for detecting bullet speeds. It seems Garmin has offered an excellent unit on its first venture into our realm of shooting. Will see how the final version of the LabRadar LX compares when it becomes available for purchase.

So far in beta testing videos against the Garmin, the LabRadar LX appears to be a superior unit in construction quality and performance at the same price point. We will see…

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Interesting wonder if the garmin had not come would Labradar have updated their product, I don’t own either and think Iwill just wait and see how this plays out

 

[Krogen]

It's getting tougher to sell LabRadars. Brownells is advertising them for $350 "for a limited time." I was happy to get $350 for my used one a few months ago. It did come with assorted goodies that Brownells' offer doesn't include. I'm glad it's gone! LabRadar was new and innovative back then. Now, about the only thing good I can say about it is that it's big, orange and hard to lose. Yeah, I'm fickle.

Oh look . . . Squirrel ! ! !

 

[Wild Bill IV]

Thus the reason for truing your dope down range.

Very true!!! But, if we use all the tools available at the beginning of load development, the shooter can spend less time in fine tuning for down range!!! He's the deal, I understand frequency, wave form, harmonics (constructive and destructive), and nodes!!! I also understand the forces in rotation dynamics, thermodynamics (study of heat which is the bases for internal ballistic), mechanics (Newtonian physics), fluid mechanics (air is a fluid of lower density), and a reloader, shooter for 50 years!!! I wanted to be a ballistician but the military was downsizing and centralizing all the testing grounds and labs in the early 70s!!! There were more professionals in that field than jobs!! I choose engineering instead!!!

Since I'm retired, I'm going to do the research I never got to do!!! I'm going to make do with the tools I have and knowledge is the key!!! I have several hypothesis that need testing and data collection in order to make a case for theories!!! I'm going to start getting an standing of bullet stability passing through the high density and pressure cloud, in front of and around the muzzle, of gases caused by 1)compressed air shoved out of the barrel in front of the bullet like a piston 2) hot and high speed bypass gases in the barrel/bullet region 3) the faster than the bullet hot exhaust plasma!! My hypothesis is a balanced bullet (center of mass located close to the middle of the bullet) will stabilize better than an offset bullet (center of mass located more toward the tip or base)!! It will also achieve stability faster in it's flight and may hit down range faster!!! If the hypothesis is correct, it can minimize doping

Just how accurate do we really need to be?

I've been using MagnetoSpeed for some time and waiting for something more reliable than the LR. Along comes Garmin and took the plunge. First thing I did was set them up to comparer velocity readings, including comparing neighboring shooter's LR readings. None of the radar readings were much different than what I got on my MagnetoSpeed V3. The Garmin readings are plenty close enough to the MS readings for doing what we're doing with them, IMHO.

View attachment 1557694
View attachment 1557696
View attachment 1557695

Just how accurate do we really need to be?

I've been using MagnetoSpeed for some time and waiting for something more reliable than the LR. Along comes Garmin and took the plunge. First thing I did was set them up to comparer velocity readings, including comparing neighboring shooter's LR readings. None of the radar readings were much different than what I got on my MagnetoSpeed V3. The Garmin readings are plenty close enough to the MS readings for doing what we're doing with them, IMHO.

View attachment 1557694
View attachment 1557696
View attachment 1557695

Thanks Straightshooter!!
My Assumption was pretty close at 1 to 3 f/s!!!! Most of the higher Vs was on the Mag!! I question the higher Vs on the LR!!! I have had spiked Vs on my LR!! When checking the down range Vs, there was data missing!!! That data made the muzzle V higher when linear regression in the programming to derive that MV!!
Bill
AIM SMALL, HIT BIG!!!!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Interesting wonder if the garmin had not come would Labradar have updated their product, I don’t own either and think Iwill just wait and see how this plays out

Maybe not, who knows. Tho according to LabRadar, they have been conducting R&D on the new LX model for 3 years. But that’s just what I heard in videos of interviews with the shot show booth rep. Garmin has definitely upped the ante and because of the success Garmin has had, I can see a lot of good new chronograph tech headed our way in the years to come with these 2 companies battling it out.

And Caldwell is sneaking up the rear too, so will be interesting to see what they can offer at a lower price point.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Finding and hiring people that really knows how and can produce a good user interface has been a problem since the beginning of electronic devices and computing. Apparently, it's a rare talent.

That's why software engineers get paid more than gunsmiths.

 

[hogpatrol]

Compare Garmin started in 1989, with LRs Infinition started in 1996. If one wants to do some research on both companies, explore their product line and market penetration, especially with doppler products. I doubt LR will be in the consumer chrono market much longer. They simply do not have the capital or marketing to compete with Garmin.

Dr. Min Kao | Garmin Executive Team | Garmin

Dr. Min Kao | Garmin Executive Team | Garmin

www.garmin.com

Garmin GWX™ 75 | Digital Doppler Enabled Aviation Radar

www.garmin.com

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Compare Garmin started in 1989, with LRs Infinition started in 1996. If one wants to do some research on both companies, explore their product line and market penetration, especially with doppler products. I doubt LR will be in the consumer chrono market much longer. They simply do not have the capital or marketing to compete with Garmin.

Dr. Min Kao | Garmin Executive Team | Garmin

Dr. Min Kao | Garmin Executive Team | Garmin

www.garmin.com

Garmin GWX™ 75 | Digital Doppler Enabled Aviation Radar

www.garmin.com

And don’t forget that with Garmin you are sending most of your money over to Asian countries so there’s that too.

At least LR is built in Canada.

 

[Fast14riot]

@Wild Bill IV, biggest difference I've found in looking into the technology and a DIY approach, Garmin is 24ghz and LR is 60ghz. Interpolation to a 3fps resolution, even with Garmin's 20x24 degree cone of influence would require significantly more "zero padding" than LR at the higher frequency. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I've read the data, that is what seems to be happening.

 

[GotRDid]

And don’t forget that with Garmin you are sending most of your money over to Asian countries so there’s that too.

At least LR is built in Canada.

Lot of $$$$ going there as well with all the high end optics we use for our hobby.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Lot of $$$$ going there as well with all the high end optics we use for our hobby.

Yeah a person can just do the best they can these days. American manufacturing is in the toilet at the moment, especially due our inflation