New build for 1500-1760 yards.. what cartridge?

[coldboreshot]

The 7SAUM would do very well however, I hope 1400 is not the sustainable number of rounds your indicating. All Fclass shooters I know who utilize this cartridge are replacing barrels at 800 rounds +/-.
In my experiences, 300WM is a very viable option. I have only managed 1725 yards so far with one I own but that was the longest distance available to me at the time. Its easy to work with, easy to load, component selections are (easier on the wallet) and done right, you can get significantly more rounds out of a barrel than a 7SAUM. Just my $ .02.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Buy it from Canadian retailers. Theyve had it instock for a while. Ive sent a bunch of customers to Tesro. I bought 4,000 rounds of loaded ABM ammo on clearance. Paid my sister in law to pull the berger bullets and powder. Then I had 4,000 pieces of lapua brass.

Is there any issues or limitations in ordering from this Canadian Retailer & having them ship to the U.S.A. ? - What about import duties/fees ? Clearing Customs Etc. ? - And shipping cost can be expected on say 200 pieces ?

Thanks, - Ron -

 

[rpierce]

Is there any issues or limitations in ordering from this Canadian Retailer & having them ship to the U.S.A. ? - What about import duties/fees ? Clearing Customs Etc. ? - And shipping cost can be expected on say 200 pieces ?

Thanks, - Ron -

No issues on ordering from Canadian retailers as long as its not powder etc. Shipping wasn't bad. I bought a couple hundred pieces from Insite Arms a few weeks ago. Very reasonably priced.

 

[Longrange57]

The 7SAUM would do very well however, I hope 1400 is not the sustainable number of rounds your indicating. All Fclass shooters I know who utilize this cartridge are replacing barrels at 800 rounds +/-.
In my experiences, 300WM is a very viable option. I have only managed 1725 yards so far with one I own but that was the longest distance available to me at the time. Its easy to work with, easy to load, component selections are (easier on the wallet) and done right, you can get significantly more rounds out of a barrel than a 7SAUM. Just my $ .02.

Absolutely not! 1400 yards

 

[Longrange57]

Absolutely not! 1400 yards

Don't mean to highjack this thread but in light of shooting 1760 yards I have a question about bullet spin decay rate. I'm not sure I believe the numbers you get with the Kolbey formula or understand where he got his data. I constructed a spreadsheet with some interesting data. If his formula is correct we lose a lot of original spin with time. Ex: 2.8 sec TOF...1800 yds...6.8 sec TOF...3500 yds. Will our bullet be stable at these lower rpm's. I have a buddy that shoots KO2M and is regularly on at 2500 with a .375 cal. MV 2930....he goes subsonic around 2600-2700 and below 1,000 fps at 3500. A number of folks get hits at 2 miles (3500) but some do not. For those who do not I wonder how much of it is stability? Notice that the larger diameter bullets do not lose as much spin percentage wise. Trying to understand whats going on....maybe the experts can help out.

 

[Longrange57]

Don't mean to highjack this thread but in light of shooting 1760 yards I have a question about bullet spin decay rate. I'm not sure I believe the numbers you get with the Kolbey formula or understand where he got his data. I constructed a spreadsheet with some interesting data. If his formula is correct we lose a lot of original spin with time. Ex: 2.8 sec TOF...1800 yds...6.8 sec TOF...3500 yds. Will our bullet be stable at these lower rpm's. I have a buddy that shoots KO2M and is regularly on at 2500 with a .375 cal. MV 2930....he goes subsonic around 2600-2700 and below 1,000 fps at 3500. A number of folks get hits at 2 miles (3500) but some do not. For those who do not I wonder how much of it is stability? Notice that the larger diameter bullets do not lose as much spin percentage wise. Trying to understand whats going on....maybe the experts can help out.

jimbo88mm, when shooting a mile as you have indicated the drop/drift is incredible. Although I love the 6.5's and the 7mm's, a 30 cal as some have indicated could be the ticket. I mentioned 7 saum because I cannot shoot accurately with the recoil. Bad shoulder and neck! Wish I could! If our spin at distance and time is decaying at the rate some claim, then bigger really is better to a certain degree. It's not hard to shoot a 6.5 x 284 a mile and do pretty good....but when the wind blows...you know what I mean. Wish I had more advice from my perspective.

 

[284winner]

Lots of tools out there. Just need the right one for the conditions. The 6.5 and even the 7s aren't the right tools in high winds. The heavy 30s and 33s and better yet the 375/416s

 

[johnnyi]

Planning out a new build. The purpose for this rifle is target only, no hunting. Currently not competing in anything.. and I'm unaware of any matches in this niche anyway (Seems to be a void between 1000 yard fclass and ko2m stuff). If one pops up.. might be interested and would use this build.

Elevation: 1000'

Action: Most likely a gunwerks grb (I have a coupon). Probably a long action.

I already have a 338LM. Below that I have a 260 and a 308, so there's gap. Looking for something that can fill that gap.

I'm all over the map at the moment... as small as a 6.5 prc and as large as a 300 prc. Looked at 284, 7 saum, 300 wsm, 280ai, 7 rem mag.. Would prefer something that's not too hard on barrels but its not a deal breaker.

Not interested in wildcats.

Brass availability is a key consideration (Lapua, Peterson, even a steady supply of hornady brass is okay).

Let's hear some ideas

Sounds like for this build you are running standard magnum bolt face. ADG makes 338 Edge and both 30 and 28 Nosler also 300 RUM. ADG makes all of those options

I have also been kicking around those options for BAT HR action in standard magnum. I’m currently running SAUM AI with 195 at 2880. Shot pretty well middle or the pack at the first limited class at the ELRSO match in North Texas. Decent hits but was difficult to spot misses to make corrections as the ground was soft to see the 195.

Anyway ADG seems to have several options. I heard many positive reports on various cases of theirs.

I ran 2 charts for wind hold between the 7mm with 195 vs the 215 at 3100. Holds seem to be close. But maybe I have something hosed up here??

My thought was to try the 338 EDGE with 250 mag fed or 300 as single load... hope to see more from these guys with lots more experience in this... Beyond 1000 is a new adventure for me...!

 

[Omar Alonzo]

Dont forget a 7 SAUM AI with 195s took 2nd place at ELRSO

 

[rpierce]

the norma improved can push a 215 at 3200 with h1000 before theres any pressure signs, 26" barrel. Even faster with better powders. 3100 is a cupcake load with h1000 and a 215 in the improved. I had a 230 at almost 3100 and no pressure signs with my improved, 26" barrel and n570. I could have kept going but there was a node a mile wide at 2930-2950 so I messed with that. Its stupid accurate. The nice thing is with my 5 port brake I can watch my trace go down to the 400 yd target with my scope at 25x and shooting off a bipod. Wife can shoot it no problem. That rifles 15 lbs w optics. Once the barrels shot out Im gonna put a 30" barrel on it in a bigger contour since its my dedicated plinking rifle. Won't get hauled around for hunting. That's what my 10 lb norma improved is for.

 

[Longrange57]

Sounds like for this build you are running standard magnum bolt face. ADG makes 338 Edge and both 30 and 28 Nosler also 300 RUM. ADG makes all of those options

I have also been kicking around those options for BAT HR action in standard magnum. I’m currently running SAUM AI with 195 at 2880. Shot pretty well middle or the pack at the first limited class at the ELRSO match in North Texas. Decent hits but was difficult to spot misses to make corrections as the ground was soft to see the 195.

Anyway ADG seems to have several options. I heard many positive reports on various cases of theirs.

I ran 2 charts for wind hold between the 7mm with 195 vs the 215 at 3100. Holds seem to be close. But maybe I have something hosed up here??

My thought was to try the 338 EDGE with 250 mag fed or 300 as single load... hope to see more from these guys with lots more experience in this... Beyond 1000 is a new adventure for me...!

View attachment 1109349
View attachment 1109350

johnnyi, numbers compare favorably to the program I use. I think a couple of years ago Bryan Litz did very well with the 338 Edge in KO2M. As an example my buddy's .375 with a MV of 2930 has a 592/79 inch drop/drift. I understand that some are looking at the Lehigh .458. Although BC is a tool we use and its great to crunch the numbers but once past about 1400 and especially at 2 miles the heavies get the job done that many of us are still trying to figure out. Often on paper it gets there...but in reality at these great distances we may have other dynamics going on. I'm sure that Bryan Litz and others can speak to this stuff!

 

[jimbo88mm]

Sounds like for this build you are running standard magnum bolt face. ADG makes 338 Edge and both 30 and 28 Nosler also 300 RUM. ADG makes all of those options

I have also been kicking around those options for BAT HR action in standard magnum. I’m currently running SAUM AI with 195 at 2880. Shot pretty well middle or the pack at the first limited class at the ELRSO match in North Texas. Decent hits but was difficult to spot misses to make corrections as the ground was soft to see the 195.

Anyway ADG seems to have several options. I heard many positive reports on various cases of theirs.

I ran 2 charts for wind hold between the 7mm with 195 vs the 215 at 3100. Holds seem to be close. But maybe I have something hosed up here??

My thought was to try the 338 EDGE with 250 mag fed or 300 as single load... hope to see more from these guys with lots more experience in this... Beyond 1000 is a new adventure for me...!

View attachment 1109349
View attachment 1109350

Hey Johnnyi, the ELRSO match in North Texas, was that at triple C up in Cresson?

 

[284winner]

the norma improved can push a 215 at 3200 with h1000 before theres any pressure signs, 26" barrel. Even faster with better powders. 3100 is a cupcake load with h1000 and a 215 in the improved. I had a 230 at almost 3100 and no pressure signs with my improved, 26" barrel and n570. I could have kept going but there was a node a mile wide at 2930-2950 so I messed with that. Its stupid accurate. The nice thing is with my 5 port brake I can watch my trace go down to the 400 yd target with my scope at 25x and shooting off a bipod. Wife can shoot it no problem. That rifles 15 lbs w optics. Once the barrels shot out Im gonna put a 30" barrel on it in a bigger contour since its my dedicated plinking rifle. Won't get hauled around for hunting. That's what my 10 lb norma improved is for.

30" barrel will add 100 fps !!!

 

[Milo 2.0]

I'd opt for a 28 Nosler shooting 195's. Are there better choices, of coarse there are, especially if the goal is a first rd hit every time out in all conditions.
To me, there is nothing more satisfying or fun to watch as David taking down Goliath. One mile is not that far, and learning to master it will be a lot more rewarding with a smaller case than doing so with a the 338's on up.

I watched a guy clean up on 70 or so competitors in a prs style match with winds from 35-55mph shooting a 6 BRX. He won by 20 points, but averaged 50 points more than the combined field. The wind was forecasted and a lot of guys brought bigger guns to no avail.
I bet the drive home felt good.

 

[johnnyi]

Hey Johnnyi, the ELRSO match in North Texas, was that at triple C up in Cresson?

Yes. Was a fun match. I didn’t hit the mile last time. So I’m hoping to get that done at the next one in Texas. Hopefully he has another one in TX soon.

 

[rpierce]

30" barrel will add 100 fps !!!

yep. I did a 30" for a customer and it was pretty much 100 fps on the button.

I'd opt for a 28 Nosler shooting 195's. Are there better choices, of coarse there are, especially if the goal is a first rd hit every time out in all conditions.
To me, there is nothing more satisfying or fun to watch as David taking down Goliath. One mile is not that far, and learning to master it will be a lot more rewarding with a smaller case than doing so with a the 338's on up.

I watched a guy clean up on 70 or so competitors in a prs style match with winds from 35-55mph shooting a 6 BRX. He won by 20 points, but averaged 50 points more than the combined field. The wind was forecasted and a lot of guys brought bigger guns to no avail.
I bet the drive home felt good.

Ive built several hundred 28 noslers. Theyre definitely not a plinking cartridge. Peak barrel life is 500-600 rounds if its kept cool and clean. .007-.010 throat erosion every 100 rounds and it generally needs cleaned every 20-30 rounds. Its pretty much a break the barrel in, get your load and kill stuff type of cartridge. I took my 28 nosler barrel off and spun up a 30-28 nosler. The thing is stupid accurate. Best so far is 1.5" @950 yds off the bipod with it. 215 berger at 3070 fps with h1000. Not a hot load. Im going to plink a lot with that combo.

 

[Longrange57]

yep. I did a 30" for a customer and it was pretty much 100 fps on the button.


Ive built several hundred 28 noslers. Theyre definitely not a plinking cartridge. Peak barrel life is 500-600 rounds if its kept cool and clean. .007-.010 throat erosion every 100 rounds and it generally needs cleaned every 20-30 rounds. Its pretty much a break the barrel in, get your load and kill stuff type of cartridge. I took my 28 nosler barrel off and spun up a 30-28 nosler. The thing is stupid accurate. Best so far is 1.5" @950 yds off the bipod with it. 215 berger at 3070 fps with h1000. Not a hot load. Im going to plink a lot with that combo.

One mile is that intermediate range. I agree with the 30 cal deal for the most part. As can be seen from this spreadsheet the combinations in the middle can easily do a mile and be consistent. High winds are always another story. At 500-1,000 I regularly shoot against the combinations at the top. Have won a number of matches with 6BR and 6.5 x 47 at 500 yds. When the wind blows at 1,000 can't beat 284 and 300 WSM. The bottom combinations are expensive, lots of recoil, and not easy to shoot consistent groups. Look at the drift and that should tell the story!

 

[glider]

Asked indentical question to Ryan Pierce , His answer, you can have a look here

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/300-norma-improved.3960537/
Page four is my rifle, which shoot a group, hard to beat with factory ABM 215 Bergers
On page 7, I shoot same rounds out to 1300.
Ryan is a good guy to work with , has all you need ,bore guide for chamber, dies , load data , dummy round using Wheeler tech. locating lands etc.
IMHO 300 Norma Imp.has a wide spectrum of loads from 2950-3200 FPS.
Once you know your DOPE youll be smilin all the way home.
First round hits with this chamber ? Very likely!

 

[RustyPin]

7mm Dakota.

 

[JBT47]

.300 WSM throated for the 215 Berger Hybrid or the 230 Hybrid.