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New Berger .224 Bullet

My small issue is this:
Current build is a 22 Creed with 6.5 twist barrel. I may have chosen the wrong twist to push the heavies beyond 3000fps. I’m stuck with it, and going to try and make something work.
 
Laurie said:
It makes sense to waive the 'less than 81gn' ceiling in this discipline as the 223 struggles against 308/155 at longer distances, and my feeling back in 2011/12 when I shot 223 in l-r F/TR was that the there was a pretty level playing field between the pair at that time. Whilst the 223 was much nicer to shoot, it was more likely to see an occasional 'elevation funny' on the small F-Class ring targets. There was talk of lobbying ICFRA back then to allow 90s with the 223 to achieve this level playing field in the sling disciplines, and a quick check shows it apparently succeeded as a perusal of the rules now shows in the TR section:

T2.19.2.2. The bullet diameter for .223 Remington will be between .2235” and .2245”. No single bullet may exceed 91 grains in weight (or the factory tolerance for 90 grain ammunition where factory ammunition is used).

Since that time 308 development has progressed quite a bit further especially in F/TR even without the general adoption of heavier bullets such as the 185 Juggernaut and 200.20X Bergers. 155s are being ramped up to scarily impressive speeds thanks to small primer brass and new powders. The downside is barrel life which runs at a fraction of 'traditional' expectations (and which still apply to most UK 'TR' with the use of the 155 SMK in the low 2,900s). I don't know much about the US Fullbore scene, but in the past I've gained the impression that your 308 handloads generally produce around 3,000 fps with 155/155.5s, so the field remains fairly level. I'm pleased to hear that 223 is seeing use in Fullbore on your side of the Atlantic - always had a soft spot for the little cartridge.
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223 palma is like shooting an air rifle. I'm going 2860 FPS with the 90 VLD. My 30 cal 155 load goes just at 2980.
 
Laurie said:
I've been surprised by the many mentions of heavy 0.224" bullet blow-ups on the forum. I never suffered this myself with the 90gn BT and VLD Bergers despite running the VLD at ~2,900 fps with Re15. This was in a 7-twist Trueflite 6-groove barrel from New Zealand. I'm about to have another play with the cartridge in a Benchmark barrel, also 7-twist, but I believe four groove so I'll just have to see whether it now arises.

I do wonder though if different experiences on this issue mainly arise out of the difference between US and UK conditions and shooting practices. Breaking 80F is a very hot summer's day here even in southern England and 90 is exceptional (although some Bisley matches saw this temperature earlier this year in what has been our hottest ever summer). Where I shoot in the frozen northern wastes :) at 980 ft ASL anything over 70 is regarded as a hot day and we often shoot in the 50s/low 60s even in so-called 'high summer'. Also, and perhaps more crucial, we don't string shoot in TR or F-Class, pairs (or even threesomes in club matches) being the norm so there is 90 seconds minimum between shots and barrels won't reach temperatures seen in US conditions and practices.

The only 224 bullet blow-ups I ever had was many years ago shooting the rather fragile 52gn Hornady AMax in a well-worn Lilja 8-twist barrel. The load had been worked up over the preceding winter and had been entirely satisfactory in cool conditions. Shooting it on a hot day in a very protected lowland range, a real heat-trap in warm weather, the following summer saw the first few shots giving excellent results starting with a cold, clean barrel, then very bad elevation stringing appearing as the barrel heated and fouled followed by nearly every bullet blowing up at around 100 yards from the muzzle.
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I live and shoot in southern Louisiana and this year it's been exceptionally hot. I've shot in 95+ degree heat with my 223 without any issues. Thoughts are some shooters are in a bad habit of not brushing their barrel during cleaning thus allowing carbon to creep up, possibly tearing/scraping jackets then, bullets coming apart. I always bronze brush "properly" when cleaning. Just my 2 cents.
 
stuann said:
Heat build up during string firing in the summer seems to have been a factor in the bullet blow-ups I have experienced.
For us non-engineers - would the bore stay (meaningfully) cooler with a light, versus standard, versus heavy Palma contour barrel?
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I shoot HEAVY palma contour on my 223. After 22 shot string lasting as short as 13-15 minutes I can touch my face with the barrel while getting up and it's just warm. Don't try that with a 6xc
 
r bose said:
Shot my 223 palma rifle yesterday with 90g Berger VLD's at 600 in a local club match yesterday. As of last night 2723 rounds thru it and still holding the prone X ring. My cleaning regime is OK but not excessive. I might go 3 matches, 200 rounds, between cleanings. I'm the lucky one that has never had a problem with bullet blowups. 7 twist Bartlien 5R rifling 30". Personally, I think the 5R is much easier on the jackets than a 4 grove. I use RL-15 powder.
Click to expand...
Had a 5R barrel 30” 6.7 twist and still blew them up. Your a lucky one.
 
I've had jacket failures with 90 VLDs and 88 ELDMs from a 6.8-twist 5R barrel, none whatsoever from 7.0-twist barrels. At ~2850 fps, the 7.0-twist barrel translates to roughly 293,000 RPM, the 6.8-twist barrel = 302,000 RPM. According to Berger, anything over 3K RPM and all bets are off. So is it the straw that broke the camel's back just going from 7.0- to 6.8-twist? Is there some kind of defect in the 6.8-twist barrel that can't be readily detected with a borescope? I have no way of knowing. I have not lost any SMK90s in the 6.8-twist barrel at comparable velocity, suggesting they may have a tougher jacket.

The bottom line is that if the new 85.5s exhibit comparable external ballistics to other bullets in the weight class AND Berger has solved the jacket failure issue, whether due to a shorter bearing surface and less jacket stress or possibly a different jacket design/material, they will be a distinct improvement over current designs that have exhibited jacket failure issues. If the problem has not been addressed sufficiently, people are probably going to experience blow-ups if they try to push them too hard.
 
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Laurie said:
How did you get on with the 85gn RDF Monte?
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I shot 2-22 shot strings out of an AR-15, prone, XTC rifle, scoped in a sling at 600 yds using no load workup, just duplicating my 82g Berger load. Shot a 197 and a 198. Not bad just for trying them out. Accuracy seems good but I have no real details. Rifle has a 7 twist shilen from White Oak, 20 inch, load is 27.3g of 2000-MR Alliant powder 30k off the lands, using LC brass, CCI 450 primer. The .500 BC seems very forgiving.
 
Shootin25 said:
My small issue is this:
Current build is a 22 Creed with 6.5 twist barrel. I may have chosen the wrong twist to push the heavies beyond 3000fps. I’m stuck with it, and going to try and make something work.
Click to expand...
Yes much too fast for such a big capacity cartridge w/ .224 bullet. A 7.5 would be ideal for 95 down.
 
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