New Bartlein Barrel receivedTuner Questions/discussion

[Allen R]

I recently purchased a Bartlein barrel from Whidden. Fit, finish and chambering is A++, all round great experience from discussions, ordering and delivery. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo in it that I had on hand. 1 Eley, 2 different SK, and Norma Tac22. SK Rifle Match was the winner by far. I then installed the Harrell Tuner that I ordered for the barrel and worked out a setting. I’m new to using a tuner on a .22lr and am wondering if or how much the tuner setting changes with temperature. When I shot, here in Ohio, it was 27deg. If it changes how much can weather(temp,humidity etc) change before the load goes out of tune and is there a way to predict/anticipate it by the group shape or impact shift?

 

[ELR LVR]

I recently purchased a Bartlein barrel from Whidden. Fit, finish and chambering is A++, all round great experience from discussions, ordering and delivery. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo in it that I had on hand. 1 Eley, 2 different SK, and Norma Tac22. SK Rifle Match was the winner by far. I then installed the Harrell Tuner that I ordered for the barrel and worked out a setting. I’m new to using a tuner on a .22lr and am wondering if or how much the tuner setting changes with temperature. When I shot, here in Ohio, it was 27deg. If it changes how much can weather(temp,humidity etc) change before the load goes out of tune and is there a way to predict/anticipate it by the group shape or impact shift?

Following
I'm wondering how much the weather actually affects
: the load itself compared to
: how colder temps would moreso affect the barrel stiffness... such as its Modulus of Elasticity

 

[Ranger188]

Only you can figure that one out. It will change from person to person cause each
rifle might have a different barrel contour, length, ammo and type of tuner and other things.
Take notes and test as the temps and humidity change, from low now and higher later.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I recently purchased a Bartlein barrel from Whidden. Fit, finish and chambering is A++, all round great experience from discussions, ordering and delivery. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo in it that I had on hand. 1 Eley, 2 different SK, and Norma Tac22. SK Rifle Match was the winner by far. I then installed the Harrell Tuner that I ordered for the barrel and worked out a setting. I’m new to using a tuner on a .22lr and am wondering if or how much the tuner setting changes with temperature. When I shot, here in Ohio, it was 27deg. If it changes how much can weather(temp,humidity etc) change before the load goes out of tune and is there a way to predict/anticipate it by the group shape or impact shift?

If you have the correct tuner setting you should not have to make any adjustments for temperature, humidity changes. only shooting the setting you are at now will determine if it is the correct one. if anything, you will see a change in POI.

My main ARA UL rifle has not had the tuner adjusted since 2015.

Lee

 

[WyleWD]

I recently purchased a Bartlein barrel from Whidden. Fit, finish and chambering is A++, all round great experience from discussions, ordering and delivery. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo in it that I had on hand. 1 Eley, 2 different SK, and Norma Tac22. SK Rifle Match was the winner by far. I then installed the Harrell Tuner that I ordered for the barrel and worked out a setting. I’m new to using a tuner on a .22lr and am wondering if or how much the tuner setting changes with temperature. When I shot, here in Ohio, it was 27deg. If it changes how much can weather(temp,humidity etc) change before the load goes out of tune and is there a way to predict/anticipate it by the group shape or impact shift?

I too am new to using a tuner in rimfire, but thought I would share what I saw from my Shilen barreled 40xRF with a Harrell's tuner.

Back in September on a relatively windless 75* day I did a marathon shooting session at 50yds with mine. I used Midas+, Polar biathalon, Center x, Long Range, and Tac22. I never got a really good setting for the Tac22, but FAR better than it was without the tuner. The other 4 showed a sweet spot where they all shot VERY small but the POI on each one was slightly different. So I locked it down and saved and marked the boxes I was using. 1 -3 lines on the tuner can be a LOT of difference. At least on mine anyway.

Then about 6 weeks or so ago we caught a calm day at about 40* and I took those same boxes out and shot them at 50yds. Long story short, they surprised me and all the Lapua offerings shot small just like back in September....... but POI changed by about 3/8". The Tac shot roughly the same larger groups too, but I'm thinking that it can't be tuned much better than just for trigger time....... definitely not match worthy at 50yds but maybe so at 50 feet.

ALWAYS take good wind flags and use them even on a calm day. JME. FWIW. WD

 

[CharlieNC]

It is well known that temperature has a significant effect on velocity, and consequently the barrel exit time. So the bullet exits at a different muzzle position as it vibrates, ideally on the upswing to achieve positive compensation. There is an addage "Down and out" meaning when cooler, screw the tuner out. The Harrell is pretty sensitive and I have only tried this once to maintain accuracy at a cold match.

 

[grauhanen]

The Harrell tuner will have 500 possible settings, several of which may produce improved results. Finding the correct setting may be challenging with entry level match ammo such as SK. It's rarely simply a matter of shooting a few groups and selecting the setting associated with the best one.

As Hi-NV Shooter says, with the correct setting temperature differences won't matter. While a temperature change affects MV, it affects all rounds. A good tuner setting will work with different lots, regardless of their average MV.

 

[MarkS]

I recently purchased a Bartlein barrel from Whidden. Fit, finish and chambering is A++, all round great experience from discussions, ordering and delivery. I tried 4 different kinds of ammo in it that I had on hand. 1 Eley, 2 different SK, and Norma Tac22. SK Rifle Match was the winner by far. I then installed the Harrell Tuner that I ordered for the barrel and worked out a setting. I’m new to using a tuner on a .22lr and am wondering if or how much the tuner setting changes with temperature. When I shot, here in Ohio, it was 27deg. If it changes how much can weather(temp,humidity etc) change before the load goes out of tune and is there a way to predict/anticipate it by the group shape or impact shift?

I have been using tuners for 4 years. I tune with SK Long Range. I have not seen any change in my tunes for cold to warm weather. You will see changes in drop. I tune with one ammo, and see how the others shoot with that tune. I shoot long range steel. I have been lucky with Eley Contact shooting with the SKLR tune.

 

[jsof]

In my experience, once you get that ideal tune, even the most extreme temperature change might make you want an adjustment of one or two numbers, and the effect will be minimal. In my case I think it's more psychological than real, so I'm coming around to leaving it alone and adjusting POA like many of the responders above.

 

[PNW Skipper]

Plus one on no change in tuner setting with temperature. What does change for me with temperature is ammo selection. Below 35-40F I find that Biathlon ammo, particularly the discontinued Lapua Biathlon Xtreme shoots most consistently. I am hoarding it for winter shooting.

 

[High Noon]

I totally agree with Lee. I’ve shot on and off all winter during some skinny temps and never touched my tuner. I’d be interested in how your new Bartlein barrel performs.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Not telling anybody what they should do but I'll mention a couple of things that some might consider relevant...some not.

Smokeless powder turning from a solid into a gas is a chemical reaction. ALL chemical reactions are temperature dependent. That change affects velocity and/or the way pressure builds, affecting bullet exit timing. None of that is opinion nor subjective unless you just like arguing with physics. Anything that affects bullet exit timing, I believe is tune related.

Now, the most critical component is powder, so less powder to be affected, may well show less change than a cartridge with a lot of powder. Also, I believe powder capacity to bore ratio is a factor. An example would be the 30BR, which most people would call relatively tune insensitive compared to say, a 6ppc or BR, with the same or similar capacity but a smaller bore.

Temp is not the only factor though. Air pressure is another big factor and because it affects the ability of air to hold moisture, some might relate it to humidity. I'll stop there but there are both subjective and factual reasons to base choices on in this...and both matter but we can't disregard facts to suit a subjective view but may benefit from considering both. Just stuff to think about. Not telling anybody what to do or that they should change a thing.

 

[Allen R]

Thanks for the responses. By no means do I have it in what I would call tuned yet but have been pleased with the results so far. Having a consistent day in which to tune in has been the problem for me. Last Friday it was the best but still breezy. I had flags out and groups were better when a light breeze blowing but if it let off, flags all the sudden dropped and stopped, and a shot was fired when that happened it always impacted low. When I shot 6PPC years ago they warned us about shooting in the let off. Does this seem to happen consistently with 22lr as well?

 

[Williwaw]

Shooting the same lot of ammo in the same rifle every day and the case will be gone today. Temps from 1C to -17C and the tuner has been moved one out sometimes. Each days shooting is one or two F Class targets and the final analysis is a 40 shot composite group. All results comparable day to day.

My ammo does not get to cool down.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Thanks for the responses. By no means do I have it in what I would call tuned yet but have been pleased with the results so far. Having a consistent day in which to tune in has been the problem for me. Last Friday it was the best but still breezy. I had flags out and groups were better when a light breeze blowing but if it let off, flags all the sudden dropped and stopped, and a shot was fired when that happened it always impacted low. When I shot 6PPC years ago they warned us about shooting in the let off. Does this seem to happen consistently with 22lr as well?

In RFBR a let up usually will cause the shot to go where you hold off POA normally left-right wind will cause shots to go down and right, right-left wind up and left.
if your shots go low on a let up, I have to think you tuned on the downside and not on the upside of the horizontal plane you always want a tuner setting that is at or above that horizontal line.

Lee

 

[Allen R]

In RFBR a let up usually will cause the shot to go where you hold off POA normally left-right wind will cause shots to go down and right, right-left wind up and left.
if your shots go low on a let up, I have to think you tuned on the downside and not on the upside of the horizontal plane you always want a tuner setting that is at or above that horizontal line.

Lee

Can you explain the upside tune or how to get there?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Can you explain the upside tune or how to get there?

I am sure as you were trying to tune the rifle you saw shots that migrated around the POA to POI as you made tuner setting changes. the setting you want will place the POA to PPI at or above your POA.

This example shows how shots migrated around the center of the bull which was the POA and how tuner adjustments changed the POI. the final setting for this rifle a factory Anschutz 54 was set at 90 and has not been changed since this was in 2019. groups were 3-shots, and you will notice that between 80-90 settings the groups look identical however 85 is below the horizontal line and 80 is left of the POA setting 90 is just at the horizontal line and right of center. remember right-hand twist barrel so shots will naturally go right if bullet exit is correct. use 5 clicks to make each adjustment as you shoot, I use only 3 shots as it lessens any chance of a skewed shot from condition changes.

Some examples of why you want a setting that will put shots at or above the horizontal line-
The IBS target was shot at 100yds. notice the number 2 bull that is 3 shots, the wind was rather strong that day, so we elected to shoot the same target for 3 relays. each shot was 7-minuts apart. lastly Lapua tunnel test results same tuner setting of 90 11.86mm 10-shot group.

Lee

 

[BowChamp]

I'm with the set it and forget it crowd and have gotten help from some that have already posted in this thread.

I've been shooting ARA Unlimited with the same tune for almost two years with well over 200 different lot #'s of ammo. I've never been to a test center and have purchased all my ammo blind. I've been very pleased with my results. I shot an unlimited match yesterday with a new lot # and have no complaints at all.

Hope this helps.
Jerry

@Hi-NV Shooter Hey Mr. Lee, that scope has been awesome!!!

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I'm with the set it and forget it crowd and have gotten help from some that have already posted in this thread.

I've been shooting ARA Unlimited with the same tune for almost two years with well over 200 different lot #'s of ammo. I've never been to a test center and have purchased all my ammo blind. I've been very pleased with my results. I shot an unlimited match yesterday with a new lot # and have no complaints at all.

Hope this helps.
Jerry

@Hi-NV Shooter Hey Mr. Lee, that scope has been awesome!!!

Jerry, I am glad it is working for you, it served me very well over the years.

Lee

 

[Allen R]

I am sure as you were trying to tune the rifle you saw shots that migrated around the POA to POI as you made tuner setting changes. the setting you want will place the POA to PPI at or above your POA.

This example shows how shots migrated around the center of the bull which was the POA and how tuner adjustments changed the POI. the final setting for this rifle a factory Anschutz 54 was set at 90 and has not been changed since this was in 2019. groups were 3-shots, and you will notice that between 80-90 settings the groups look identical however 85 is below the horizontal line and 80 is left of the POA setting 90 is just at the horizontal line and right of center. remember right-hand twist barrel so shots will naturally go right if bullet exit is correct. use 5 clicks to make each adjustment as you shoot, I use only 3 shots as it lessens any chance of a skewed shot from condition changes.

Some examples of why you want a setting that will put shots at or above the horizontal line-
The IBS target was shot at 100yds. notice the number 2 bull that is 3 shots, the wind was rather strong that day, so we elected to shoot the same target for 3 relays. each shot was 7-minuts apart. lastly Lapua tunnel test results same tuner setting of 90 11.86mm 10-shot group.

Lee

Thanks for the info. I noticed POI shift but with my .22 inexperience I was looking for consistent round groups. I’m used to center fire were it was recommended to tune so the 30fps shot was a little high at 100yds and didn’t know how to read the info I was looking at. Much appreciated.