New 155gr 6.5mm Berger on the horizon?

[Grimstod]

Found this on a FB page. Any one hear about it yet? Estimated BC? Guy is claiming stable in a 1:8 which I do not buy. One person estimated it would have a BC G1= 0.675 is g7= 0.345 EST.

Will this be a big game changer? Will many that have been switching to the 284 switch back to the 6.5-284?

 

[Grimstod]

Cant anyone spell Creedmoor right lol. Its not CreedMoor.

 

[Kurz]

Guy is climbing stable in a 1:8 which I do not buy.

Can't anyone spell 'claiming' right?

I realize that all of this is just hypothetical but the suggested BC appears to be a little low, especially if the Nosler Accubond LR is higher by Nosler's claim.



It's always nice to see a bullet maker follow through with the current trend of long/heavy for caliber...

Regards.

 

[dkhunt14]

Can't anyone spell 'claiming' right?

I realize that all of this is just hypothetical but the suggested BC appears to be a little low, especially if the Nosler Accubond LR is higher by Nosler's claim.

View attachment 1018278

It's always nice to see a bullet maker follow through with the current trend of long/heavy for caliber...

Regards.

Nosler has been known to inflate BC. Also I know nobody in 600 or 1000 yard BR or F-class shooting them. Not accurate enough. Matt

 

[alf]

I realize that all of this is just hypothetical but the suggested BC appears to be a little low, especially if the Nosler Accubond LR is higher by Nosler's claim.
View attachment 1018278

Nosler missed the BC boat by a mile on those.

My testing showed .550....

 

[fredo]

Game changer?
Don't think so. Not for me, anyway...

Unless you're running a monster 6.5 wildcat, the ballistics for pushing 130-140s are just a more efficient pairing with the Creeds, SAUMs and Swedes/variants. And you can seat 130-140s to feed/function in standard length magazines, and throat your chamber to accomodate a whole mess of bullets in that weight range...

Now, if you're going to single load a fire breathin' dragon wildcat with a long azz freebore that precludes shooting any smaller bullets with a significant jump, then yeah...a 155gr missile might be worth a 2nd look?

As for 6.5 Creed / Swede / SAUM shooters (myself being the latter) I'll keep on keepin' on with my 130-140gr VLD/JLKs. As it goes already, the 130s beat the 140s in drop to 1K, while losing 0.2 in the wind. And I'm personally not interested in taking a game animal much past 800yds, anyway, and </= 140gr is plenty good for that detail...

Just sayin', sometimes the heaviest / highest BC boolit ain't always the automatic "best choice" for a given cartridge.

 

[Grimstod]

Nosler has been known to inflate BC. Also I know nobody in 600 or 1000 yard BR or F-class shooting them. Not accurate enough. Matt

I would have to agree that Nosler does really inflate their claimed BC a lot. I was going to try their new RDFs but may just use them for fire forming because they are cheap if Berger really does make this bullet. A 155gr bullet with this BC would do light out great in my 6.5 BR Lapua. Could easaly give the 284s a run for their money in F-Class.

 

[Grimstod]

Game changer?
Don't think so. Not for me, anyway...

Unless you're running a monster 6.5 wildcat, the ballistics for pushing 130-140s are just a more efficient pairing with the Creeds, SAUMs and Swedes/variants. And you can seat 130-140s to feed/function in standard length magazines, and throat your chamber to accomodate a whole mess of bullets in that weight range...

Now, if you're going to single load a fire breathin' dragon wildcat with a long azz freebore that precludes shooting any smaller bullets with a significant jump, then yeah...a 155gr missile might be worth a 2nd look?

As for 6.5 Creed / Swede / SAUM shooters (myself being the latter) I'll keep on keepin' on with my 130-140gr VLD/JLKs. As it goes already, the 130s beat the 140s in drop to 1K, while losing 0.2 in the wind. And I'm personally not interested in taking a game animal much past 800yds, anyway, and </= 140gr is plenty good for that detail...

Just sayin', sometimes the heaviest / highest BC boolit ain't always the automatic "best choice" for a given cartridge.

A 6.5x47 could do very well running these. Its shorter and exact same performance as the Creedmoor would allow it to still feed from a magazine.

 

[Kurz]

I guess I'm going to have to use more smiley faces from now on, you guys must have beaten with the 'serious stick' this morning.

I'm well aware of the misinformation that Nosler publishes and I'm also aware of the downside of this current trend of long/heavy for caliber bullets. As stated above, these do not have the performance to back up their use in the smaller cases such as the Creedmoor. The Creedmoor and the others as noted above, shine with the 130/140 grain VLDs and longer/heavier does not improve that performance.

 

[fredo]

A 6.5x47 could do very well running these. Its shorter and exact same performance as the Creedmoor would allow it to still feed from a magazine.

Definition of "very well" being subjective, of course.

If you mean lobbing them @ known distance paper, then...perhaps.
But that rainbow trajectory they'll most assuredly have from a rather small capacity x47L isn't doing a hunter any favors. A 130 throttled up will most likely shoot much faster / flatter, and the higher MV will serve to mitigate any wind advantage the 155 might hold at longer (beyond reasonable) distance...

What would you consider a realistic MV expectation for a 155 from an x47L?

 

[JBT47]

Probably around 2600 from a 26" barrel

 

[Grimstod]

Definition of "very well" being subjective, of course.

If you mean lobbing them @ known distance paper, then...perhaps.
But that rainbow trajectory they'll most assuredly have from a rather small capacity x47L isn't doing a hunter any favors. A 130 throttled up will most likely shoot much faster / flatter, and the higher MV will serve to mitigate any wind advantage the 155 might hold at longer (beyond reasonable) distance...

What would you consider a realistic MV expectation for a 155 from an x47L?

Exact same as you would expect with a Creedmoor. They are balistically twins even though the Lapua is smaller.

 

[Grimstod]

I guess I'm going to have to use more smiley faces from now on, you guys must have beaten with the 'serious stick' this morning.

I'm well aware of the misinformation that Nosler publishes and I'm also aware of the downside of this current trend of long/heavy for caliber bullets. As stated above, these do not have the performance to back up their use in the smaller cases such as the Creedmoor. The Creedmoor and the others as noted above, shine with the 130/140 grain VLDs and longer/heavier does not improve that performance.

Must be to early in the morning

 

[fredo]

Ok, lets assume & run with that, from a 6.5x47L:

A 155gr(new bullet) @ 2600 vs. a 130(HVLD) @ 2900
est .675 G1, vs the listed .552 G1 of the HVLD:

At 600yds, the 130VLD shoots 0.7MILS flatter
And, for all that loss in trajectory, the 155 only pays ya back with 0.1MIL less wind drift. Big whoop?

Now, ask yourself if you had a choice between two bullets, one of which shot 0.7mils flatter @ 600yds, why on Earth would you take the trajectory penalty???

Only reason I see would be, retained energy on target.
To that end, consider this:

The 155 only retains barely 100 ft/lbs. advantage over the 130 ( ~1200 vs. ~1100)

So, its not like the 155 is going to hit a critter perceptibly "harder" than the 130...

Seeing the logic?

 

[Grimstod]

Ok, lets assume & run with that, from a 6.5x47L:

A 155gr(new bullet) @ 2600 vs. a 130(HVLD) @ 2900
est .675 G1, vs the listed .552 G1 of the HVLD:

At 600yds, the 130VLD shoots 0.7MILS flatter
And, for all that loss in trajectory, the 155 only pays ya back with 0.1MIL less wind drift. Big whoop?

Now, ask yourself if you had a choice between two bullets, one of which shot 0.7mils flatter @ 600yds, why on Earth would you take the trajectory penalty???

Only reason I see would be, retained energy on target.
To that end, consider this:

The 155 only retains barely 100 ft/lbs. advantage over the 130 ( ~1200 vs. ~1100)

So, its not like the 155 is going to hit a critter perceptibly "harder" than the 130...

Seeing the logic?

Any experience shooter knows that BC trumps MV any day. I would also caution you that bullets with longer bearing surfaces also shoot better as they align themselves in the bore better. This has been proven over and over again between 95gr and 105gr 6mm bullets and also 130 and 140gr 6.5mm bullets.
Also I would expect a little better then 2600. Probably 2650 with a 26in barrel. Although most F-Class shooter are running 30+in barrels and these tend to gain the most muzzle velocity with heavy bullets.

 

[fredo]

Any experience shooter knows that BC trumps MV any day.

Right, until is doesn't.
As in the case I provided above...

My argument holds for most any cartridge I shoot.
Which I why I'm shooting an 87gr in my 6x45AI, over a 105 or 115gr
And why I shoot a 75gr in .22-243AI, over a 90gr.

Again, defaulting to "BC is always the best" doesn't shake out in the real world. Yes, eventually BC will 'win', but if the distance is beyond usable/intended range of that cartridge, then there IS NO benefit...

Are you seeing any 'issues' with my ballistic math, or contesting those #s? If so, please share!

And, since you're implying that you're "experienced", and I'm not, how bout you show us where the advantage might be?

Please use the 6.5x47L, since that is what you mentioned above...

Standing by!

 

[Grimstod]

Ok, lets assume & run with that, from a 6.5x47L:

And, for all that loss in trajectory, the 155 only pays ya back with 0.1MIL less wind drift.

You already proved it. See above quote from you. Wind is what matters most. Drop is always consistent. With today laser range finders finding range is easy. Wind is the big variable that is hard to read.

 

[fredo]

You already proved it. See above quote from you. Wind is what matters most. Drop is always consistent. With today laser range finders finding range is easy. Wind is the big variable that is hard to read.

What I proved was that the 130 shoots over 15" FLATTER than the 155, while only yielding 2" of wind drift...

And, if you cared to look back and read what I wrote, you'd see my point was from that of a hunter, not a paper puncher. In that regard, going 'heavy' as default isn't doing us hunters any favors. Seeing as where a slight mis-calculation in range might happen in the field, a more forgiving (read:FLAT) trajectory will help absorb that potential error. Whereas, a mis-call of 0.1mil (~2") of wind is not going to make or break anything on a game animal in the field @ 600yds...

Considering that, and to further address the 'wind argument', do you have the "experience" / ability to make a 1st round wind call within 0.1mil (~two inches) @ 600yds? If you can't make that call EVERY time, then your argument for going 'heavy' as a wind aid simply gets lost in the noise...

If ya stopped to think about it, you'd see I'm not BC bashing, blindly. Rather, I'm simply a proponent of using the highest BC in conjunction with a MV what works optimally from a given cartridge. Can't have one without the other, and there is a balance to be struck for any given purpose. More importantly, for a specific cartridge...

Thanks for sharing your "experience" and proving my point.

 

[Grimstod]

What I proved was that the 130 shoots over 15" FLATTER than the 155, while only yielding 2" of wind drift...

And, if you cared to look back and read what I wrote, you'd see my point was from that of a hunter, not a paper puncher. In that regard, going 'heavy' as default isn't doing us hunters any favors. Seeing as where a slight mis-calculation in range might happen in the field, a more forgiving (read:FLAT) trajectory will help absorb that potential error. Whereas, a mis-call of 0.1mil (~2") of wind is not going to make or break anything on a game animal in the field @ 600yds...

Considering that, and to further address the 'wind argument', do you have the "experience" / ability to make a 1st round wind call within 0.1mil (~two inches) @ 600yds? If you can't make that call EVERY time, then your argument for going 'heavy' as a wind aid simply gets lost in the noise...

If ya stopped to think about it, you'd see I'm not BC bashing, blindly. Rather, I'm simply a proponent of using the highest BC in conjunction with a MV what works optimally from a given cartridge. Can't have one without the other, and there is a balance to be struck for any given purpose. More importantly, for a specific cartridge...

Thanks for sharing your "experience" and proving my point.

Did you take into account the amount of energy it delivers at range?

 

[kyreloader]

What wind velocity are you using for your wind drift calculation?