Need Reloading Help / Advice / information on overall size of .223 /.556 .

[KENK99]

Background:
Ruger AR-556 Model# 08539
Using Dillon 550, Dillon 223 3 die set, Dillon 223 case gauge. I have bee reloading, mostly Pistol for +20yr. from the Dillon 550 and some rifle (30-30 30-06) from a single stage press, (Sold those Rifles long time ago when i got into Pistol shooting), but just started loading 223 from the Dillon.

I am loading from New or once fired, (My factory rounds ) at (24gr. of 2230 powder for +3K FPS with a 55gr. JHP. Over all length of 2.2575” ( Specs. 2.260”) (matching the Winchester 556 Factory rounds)
Cases have been cleaned and trimmed to specs.
Also using NEW “Starline Remington Brass 223”.

What happened:
Had two rounds that on loading from mag., Jammed that required a Gun Smith to extract. Yes they were live rounds stuck entering the chamber. (bullet wasn’t stuck, just the case seating in the chamber) On bough occurrences, the Rifle had just been cleaned before going to the range and +20 rounds fired before problem. Yes the Bolt Carrier group was disassembled, cleaned and inspected.The stuck rounds (necks) were somewhat deformed from the removal but did manage to check the size at the head. Checking the cases for sizing (I think I may have had some early rounds that I picked up from the range by mistake) and found that the diameter at the case head was 0.376” (which is spec). Even my case gauge passed them. I measured a factory round ( Winchester .556 55gr JHP) and they checked out to be 0.3735”.

Today:
Gun smith couldn’t find anything with the AR. Has sent it back to Ruger for Warranty and checkout. Should be back in a couple of weeks, I HOPE.
I have checked EVERY hand-load round for case specs, overall length, and bullet diameter with caliper and case gauge. I did find a few that the head size was at the 0.376” and tried to resize them. They didn’t want to resize in the Dillon die (tended to stick and didn’t want to have one stuck in my die so discarded them)

So now all of my handholds are at 0.3735” which matches the Winchester 556 55gr. JHP and some bulk “Factory” rounds that I have.

My Question is:
Was it the Rifle? The Jams occurred on different days after each being cleared by the gun Smith. He cleaned the Rifle and I did a followup cleaning / inspection before shooting again. Don’t think it was dirt in the chamber or Mags as was firing from bench and Mags were loaded at home.
Were these just 2 bad reloads (even though they went through the checks and resizing dies) ?
Do I readjust my checks and dies to the Listed Specs. (0.376”) or just stay with the (0.375”) that Factory rounds measure at?

Thanks for any Suggestions or comments.

KenK

NEW “Starline Remington Brass 223


My Once fired and reload with the “Starline Remington Brass 223


Winchester 556 55 Gr. Factory

 

[Walt Krafft]

Are you crimping? I have seen that deform the case.
It is not much, but I have seen issues with rounds longer than 2.250.
Were the stuck rounds fed from a magazine?
Do you know how to 'mortar' a rifle to remove a stuck round?
Did you try the forward assist button? That thing has never solved a problem.

 

[jelenko]

How were the rounds stuck? I.e., were they canted somehow? Do you have a pic of what the rounds that were stuck?
Is the problem just with your reloads? I.e., how do factory ammo work?

 

[KENK99]

Are you crimping? I have seen that deform the case.
It is not much, but I have seen issues with rounds longer than 2.250.
Were the stuck rounds fed from a magazine?
Do you know how to 'mortar' a rifle to remove a stuck round?
Did you try the forward assist button? That thing has never solved a problem.

Yes have the crimp per spec sheet. Yes fed from the Mag. Yes but with the round “Live” I didn’t want to take the chance to PUSH it out as the Bolt carrier had released it. The small screwdriver that I tried at the range to free it didn’t work on the Case head (extractor grove). You mean the one that is on their for looks?

 

[KENK99]

How were the rounds stuck? I.e., were they canted somehow? Do you have a pic of what the rounds that were stuck?
Is the problem just with your reloads? I.e., how do factory ammo work?

They were particularly in the chamber with about 1/8 - 1/4 sticking out. The extractor wouldn’t / Didn’t do the job. It did release the case but left it stuck. No pictures of that. So far with my reloads. Factory is working. That is why I am questing the the measurements that are posted on the Spec sheet and why I am now setting everything up to the Factory rounds that I measured.

 

[pdog2225]

Yes have the crimp per spec sheet. Yes fed from the Mag. Yes but with the round “Live” I didn’t want to take the chance to PUSH it out as the Bolt carrier had released it. The small screwdriver that I tried at the range to free it didn’t work on the Case head (extractor grove). You mean the one that is on their for looks?

Ken, to prevent future ar15 reloading problems USE a small-base full length die (RCBS). I use the same load almost as you. AA 2230 w/24.8 grs and a 55gr vmax bullet loaded to 2.258" (mag lgth). This gives me 3030 fps out of a 24" barrel. No crimp is needed with bullets this light. Pdog2225

 

[jelenko]

They were particularly in the chamber with about 1/8 - 1/4 sticking out. The extractor wouldn’t / Didn’t do the job. It did release the case but left it stuck. No pictures of that. So far with my reloads. Factory is working. That is why I am questing the the measurements that are posted on the Spec sheet and why I am now setting everything up to the Factory rounds that I measured.

ah, so they started into the chamber and got stuck? Does a case resized case or a new Starline case without powder and bullet drop all the way into the chamber? If not, sounds like the chamber is tight.
If they do drop in all the way, a small base die might help. Also, maybe the crimp is deforming the mouth.

 

[KENK99]

Ken, to prevent future ar15 reloading problems USE a small-base full length die (RCBS). I use the same load almost as you. AA 2230 w/24.8 grs and a 55gr vmax bullet loaded to 2.258" (mag lgth). This gives me 3030 fps out of a 24" barrel. No crimp is needed with bullets this light. Pdog2225

Thank you for the Numbers as I don't have access to chronogtraph any more. My Ruger has an 18" 1:8 twist. I use a "Light Crimp" on my bullets, mainly to insure that they don't push in on loading from a MAG or from mishandling. As the public range that I use is only a 100 yrs. and I haven't hunted in 30yrs. These loads are just for punching paper. When they work I have consistent "clover leaf" groups if I hold my mouth just right and the sun shines bright.
I am using Dillon Full length Dies. Checked the installation per instructions from Dillon and all were OK.

Thanks

 

[Walt Krafft]

Stop crimping! It is not needed and a regular source of problems. I have run thousands of rounds throug AR's without crimping, both heavy and light bullets.

 

[Herzo]

Stop crimping! It is not needed and a regular source of problems. I have run thousands of rounds throug AR's without crimping, both heavy and light bullets.

Agreed, but if you insist on crimping, you must understand that the case length is critical a long case (as little as 0.002" over your nominal) can cause the case to expand and create the situation that you describe.

 

[jelenko]

Stop crimping! It is not needed and a regular source of problems. I have run thousands of rounds throug AR's without crimping, both heavy and light bullets.

I've sent over 100K rounds down range from an AR with no crimps.

 

[boltfluter]

Stop mixing range brass with your known good brass! It's not worth it to save 20 cents. Walt is on target when it comes to crimping.
Paul

 

[Lone Hunter]

Just a wild guess but to me it looks like you are measuring the rim. Measure down at what is called the “200” line and measure there. That sounds like your die is not sizing down far enough for the cartridge to fully chamber. As has been suggested try some small base dies and see if that corrects the problem. I’m with others posters about not crimping either as I have seen it to cause too many problems.

 

[jpjulian]

I suspect you may have collapsed the shoulder a bit on a couple cases during your crimping. Either the crimp was too heavy or the cases that stuck were a bit longer than the others resulting in too heavy a crimp and a collapsed shoulder. It was the shoulder which became stuck, not the case head as you suspect. A crimp is not needed for proper function in an AR.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I'm saying that this is your issue - I have a similar history - a competitive ISSF shooter for years - loading on a 550B. The technique of loading rifle ammo is a million miles from churning out 32 S&W and 9mm and I made a lot of errors!

The first "mistake" was loading 223 as if it was a pistol round . Using the "progressive" function and a powder measure. Doesn't work. You cannot care for 3 or 4 rounds at a time. One round at a time does - if you use the powder die with a funnel to pour in pre-weighed powder. The second is priming. The Dillon system is fine - provided you keep it clean and well lined up. The slightest snag on the primer holder catapults the primer away. Very distracting. The primer depth does need checking, The third is seating. The Dillon isn't the best seater - cases can tip and seat bullets crooked- and on occasion, be slightly out of line with the seating die. Take a lot of care - and it will seat just fine.

My sequence of loading - I don't use the expander ball in dies - is obviously sizing. Plenty of lube - slowly into the die - 5 second pause, then prime. Remove the case to inspect the primer depth and clean the outside of lube, then back on the 550, to station 2 for an expander mandrill. Station 3 for powder - as I use a an Autotrickler, the powder is ready- through the powder die, station 4 for placing the bullet and seating - slowly! This is where you can cause a bent case! It's only a few seconds a round with the advantage that you can walk away for a coffee, having completed a round - not a tray of half completed ammo. This system works for me with 222/223 - I don't do 6.5, 308 or BR this way - but still use the 550 for sizing, some priming and expanding, preferring to put the powder in off the press and seating with a Wilson set up or Redding competition dies on a Lyman Ideal.
I suppose that I'm suggesting that you take your time - and that the 550 is a very capable machine

 

[Jeff Porter]

More likely one of the previous suggestions of not sizing the 0.200 line enough and neeeding a small base die or collapsing the shoulder while crimping but one other comment regarding the randomness of the occurrence and being able to shoot some of the loads …

Any chance a few 6mm 55gr JHP got mixed with your .224 bullets ? I have seen wrong bullets in sealed boxes before.

 

[jelenko]

I'm saying that this is your issue - I have a similar history - a competitive ISSF shooter for years - loading on a 550B. The technique of loading rifle ammo is a million miles from churning out 32 S&W and 9mm and I made a lot of errors!

The first "mistake" was loading 223 as if it was a pistol round . Using the "progressive" function and a powder measure. Doesn't work. You cannot care for 3 or 4 rounds at a time. One round at a time does - if you use the powder die with a funnel to pour in pre-weighed powder. The second is priming. The Dillon system is fine - provided you keep it clean and well lined up. The slightest snag on the primer holder catapults the primer away. Very distracting. The primer depth does need checking, The third is seating. The Dillon isn't the best seater - cases can tip and seat bullets crooked- and on occasion, be slightly out of line with the seating die. Take a lot of care - and it will seat just fine.

My sequence of loading - I don't use the expander ball in dies - is obviously sizing. Plenty of lube - slowly into the die - 5 second pause, then prime. Remove the case to inspect the primer depth and clean the outside of lube, then back on the 550, to station 2 for an expander mandrill. Station 3 for powder - as I use a an Autotrickler, the powder is ready- through the powder die, station 4 for placing the bullet and seating - slowly! This is where you can cause a bent case! It's only a few seconds a round with the advantage that you can walk away for a coffee, having completed a round - not a tray of half completed ammo. This system works for me with 222/223 - I don't do 6.5, 308 or BR this way - but still use the 550 for sizing, some priming and expanding, preferring to put the powder in off the press and seating with a Wilson set up or Redding competition dies on a Lyman Ideal.
I suppose that I'm suggesting that you take your time - and that the 550 is a very capable machine

I had to respond to the idea that the 550 shouldn't be used for loading match rifle ammo.

All 100K rounds for the short line [200/300 yards] that I've shot over the past 17 years went through a Dillon 550. This is for coat and sling competition where 1/2 MOA ammo is needed and all were shot from an ar.
That said, I resize - with an expander ball - on a separate press and prime manually.
I periodically measure runout - it has always been less than 1.5 thou - usually less than 1 thou.
I do avoid extruded powders with long kernels.
For any matches with a 600 yard stage, I do weight each powder charge and seat on a CO-AX.

 

[SecondsCount]

Dillon 223 dies are small base. I have been using their carbide 223 die for years and it is one of the best.

 

[M-61]

That thing has never solved a problem.

That’s for sure

 

[M-61]

I've sent over 100K rounds down range from an AR with no crimps.

Is that 100K = 100,000 rounds?
Lots of shooting for sure