Need Reloading Help / Advice / information on overall size of .223 /.556 .

[markm87]

A simple case gauge, like from Dillon, is a grunt proof way of checking ammo out. Then there's the litany of No Go, Maybe So, Hip Hop Hurray Ho gauges for the chamber itself.

My money is on the case gauge IDing your issue.

 

[Highbrass Shooter]

Not a mention of his “shoulder bump”, I ran into same problem sticking cases but my sizing die had backed out of press .002 after sizing 400 cases. Went thru same troubleshooting as OP until I found problem. I too went from pistol and rifle, 50-100rd batches of 7mag, 300mag, 25/06etc to 200-400rd batches of 223 for mutiple ar15s. Had already loaded 100’s without problem. The last 30or so rds of 400 went from 1.458”(flawless performance in all my ar’s) to 1.460-1.461 on my gauge, lockring stayed tight- die backed out, all 30 of which cases stuck in mutiple rifles. Been reloading at that point for over 20yrs without a single problem, was a new lesson learned! Been 10yrs&1000’s rds without another hiccup. Just my experience going from small quantity to mass quantity rifle reloading.

 

[jelenko]

Dillon 223 dies are small base. I have been using their carbide 223 die for years and it is one of the best.

What neck tension do the Dillon dies produce?
Thanks

 

[SecondsCount]

What neck tension do the Dillon dies produce?
Thanks

Enough

I honestly don't know but I've never had an issue with neck tension in the almost 30 years I have been using it.

 

[DGP4]

I agree you don't need to crimp. I strongly suspect there was nothing wrong with the op's reloads. It sounds as if Ruger did not machine the chamber to spec. Luckily, the undersized chamber didn't allow the ammo to seat far enough in to cause an OOB detonation!

 

[Mark611]

I'm going to throw my 2ct in this, I also agree it is your sizing of you brass probably causing this problem, I say this because my brother and I were at the range 1 time and watched a guy with a New Aero precision AR10 in 308win, and had an ammo can with lose ammo in it, he fired about 2 rounds and his gun jammed up like yours did! I asked him about the ammo? he said he got it from a friend, I asked if they were reloads? He did not know for sure what he had? so my brother and I helped him get his gun unjammed, it took a cleaning rod and a hammer to tap the bullet back far enough to unlock the bolt! this was done with extreme caution 1 tapping while the other pulled back on the bolt handle securing it so it could not go forward! that said! we were successful! I looked at the round and I could tell it was a hand load that was not sized correctly! This is how I do my case prep for my gas guns, and it may be over kill for some of you but it works every time with no issues, I also do not use a sizing die with an expander, I use a Redding Small base body die and a Sheriden slotted go no go gage to check to make sure every case is in spec before I proceed to the next step but I also check a few cases to make sure they chamber in my rifles before doing anything else, my next step is to neck size all the cases with a LEE collet die! then chamfer and deburr the case mouth, then prime the cases, this work is all preformed on my Lyman brass smith turret press, I will say this first, I'm not a fan of LEE reloading equipment, but some their tools work well! now I have a LEE Classic cast 4-hole progressive type press I use this press mostly for pistol, but I have been loading 223/5.56 on it as well, I have it set up with a LEE case mouth expander that just bells the case mouth enough to fit the drop tube orifice, so I don't get any powder leakage, I'm using a LEE auto drum powder thrower and it's good +- .01tenth of a grain and a RCBS TC seating die, once all the case prep is done, it takes very little time with the Classic cast to load a lot of ammo, YMMV

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I had to respond to the idea that the 550 shouldn't be used for loading match rifle ammo.

All 100K rounds for the short line [200/300 yards] that I've shot over the past 17 years went through a Dillon 550. This is for coat and sling competition where 1/2 MOA ammo is needed and all were shot from an ar.
That said, I resize - with an expander ball - on a separate press and prime manually.
I periodically measure runout - it has always been less than 1.5 thou - usually less than 1 thou.
I do avoid extruded powders with long kernels.
For any matches with a 600 yard stage, I do weight each powder charge and seat on a CO-AX.

If I inferred that the 550 was not suitable for match ammo - It most certainly is, and I have loaded plenty - I just prefer to seat some calibres on the Wilson/arbour press. There's no right and wrong here - it's just personal ergonomics on my small loading bench.

 

[jelenko]

Enough

I honestly don't know but I've never had an issue with neck tension in the almost 30 years I have been using it.

Yeah. I was just wondering.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Yeah. I was just wondering.

Processed brass that I have bought that has been run through Dillon dies are very tight necked. So much so I resized them in a regular ball expander die before running the Lyman m die in.

 

[Dimner]

One thing every 556 reloader should do as an eye opening experiment.

Prep your brass as you always do, but don't prime or load powder. Seat a bullet at your desired OAL for a dummy round and do not crimp. Now use all your muscles to push that bullet deeper than where you seated it. Push against a workbench, brick wall, what ever is handy. Based on what you observe you can determine if you need to crimp or not.

My experience was that with a lee FL sizing die, I couldn't even get the bullet to seat any deeper. With my hornady FL die, I could get it to move but only with extreme effort. And I decided for my purposes it was an amount of neck tension that I felt did not warrant crimping.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I’m guessing the shoulders weren’t bumped back enough. 5 to 6 thousandths may be needed.

 

[Mark611]

This is the Gage you need! https://sheridanengineering.com/product/223-rem-ammunition-gauge/

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I have a ruger MPR. I reload starline 556 brass and once fired fiochi brass. I do not use a small base die and I do not crimp. The gun has never had a failure in 503 rds fired. Did you measure the shoulder bump? It has got to either be something with crimping or sizing die is not properly adjusted.

Ruger has great service. I bet the gun is back within 2 weeks. My LCP was back in like 10 days.

 

[divingin]

This is the Gage you need! https://sheridanengineering.com/product/223-rem-ammunition-gauge/

Why? You have a known chamber attached to a tube. It's even cut to the specs you'll be using when shooting. Pull the upper and use the barrel. If the round doesn't drop fully into the chamber on the barrel you'll be shooting with, you're generally guaranteed to have problems.

OP: When you size your brass, at the top of the stroke (handle fully down) how much space is between the bottom of the die and the shellplate?

Can you fully and easily chamber a piece of brass as it comes out of your sizer?

If not take a freshly sized piece of brass and color it with a sharpie. Stick it into the bolt face and work it into the chamber a couple of times and see what gets rubbed off. That will tell you where the problem is (assuming you're not bulging brass during seat/crimp.)

 

[KENK99]

Just a wild guess but to me it looks like you are measuring the rim. Measure down at what is called the “200” line and measure there. That sounds like your die is not sizing down far enough for the cartridge to fully chamber. As has been suggested try some small base dies and see if that corrects the problem. I’m with others posters about not crimping either as I have seen it to cause too many problems.View attachment 1576394

As I hope you can see in the other pictures I am reading 0.3735. The case is smaller than that and has sliped down.

 

[KENK99]

Why? You have a known chamber attached to a tube. It's even cut to the specs you'll be using when shooting. Pull the upper and use the barrel. If the round doesn't drop fully into the chamber on the barrel you'll be shooting with, you're generally guaranteed to have problems.

OP: When you size your brass, at the top of the stroke (handle fully down) how much space is between the bottom of the die and the shellplate?

Can you fully and easily chamber a piece of brass as it comes out of your sizer?

If not take a freshly sized piece of brass and color it with a sharpie. Stick it into the bolt face and work it into the chamber a couple of times and see what gets rubbed off. That will tell you where the problem is (assuming you're not bulging brass during seat/crimp.)

Have disposed of ALL unknown brass. Using NEW unprimed "Starline" brass. Per all the suggestions about crimping I'll stop. PS: I do trim the cases, even the New ones. Don't find many that need it but once in a while.

 

[KENK99]

Why? You have a known chamber attached to a tube. It's even cut to the specs you'll be using when shooting. Pull the upper and use the barrel. If the round doesn't drop fully into the chamber on the barrel you'll be shooting with, you're generally guaranteed to have problems.

OP: When you size your brass, at the top of the stroke (handle fully down) how much space is between the bottom of the die and the shellplate?

Can you fully and easily chamber a piece of brass as it comes out of your sizer?

If not take a freshly sized piece of brass and color it with a sharpie. Stick it into the bolt face and work it into the chamber a couple of times and see what gets rubbed off. That will tell you where the problem is (assuming you're not bulging brass during seat/crimp.)

I didn't have a chance to check that way as after the second JAM we sent the rifle back. I have a Dillon 223 "Head Space / Case" gauge that I check my rounds with along with checking Length.
When I do get the Rifle back I'll be doing just that.

Thanks

 

[Mark611]

WHY? these gages are fool proof, you can see everything using the slotted gage that you need to see, shoulder bump, trim length, and you can also see if the OAL of the case is at its minimum or maximum, and if the case is not fully sized correctly it will not go in the gage and seat correctly, IMO this would be a first step to help ensure your brass is good to load, I size a few cases and check them in the gage and then see if the empty unloaded brass will go into the chamber and extract without and issues, IMO that's easier than pulling off the barrel, if the brass is good than you have other issues! that may warrant pulling the barrel, I also use a tapper crimp die with bullets that have a Candler groove, and it's a very light crimp and only at the groove area of the bullet, YMMV

 

[KENK99]

Now I'm questing everything. So back to the drawing board. Per the Dillon instructions: Sizing Die installed to shell plate and then backed out 2 turns. De-primer adjusted to proper primer removal. (Checked ALL case Dimensions) Skipped the powder as that will be checked as I load. Seating die adjusted again per Dillon. Bullet depth at the center of the Grooves (55 gr. FMJ). ( OAL is same as Factory round) Now for the Crimp. Taking a FACTORY 223 55 Gr. FMJ screwing down the crimp die so it just touches, lock it in place then check the dimension, Crimp one of my rounds check it. All the same. Have done this with two - three other Factory rounds.
Rifle is due back in a few days so will be checking that ALL Reloads chamber properly. The NEW brass will be prepped, OAL, timed if needed and checked with Case Gauged. Will ONLY be reloading once fired brass from my Rifle.

Thanks everyone for our input. I'll update you when I get the Rifle back.
KenK

 

[divingin]

WHY? these gages are fool proof, you can see everything using the slotted gage that you need to see, shoulder bump, trim length, and you can also see if the OAL of the case is at its minimum or maximum, and if the case is not fully sized correctly it will not go in the gage and seat correctly, IMO this would be a first step to help ensure your brass is good to load, I size a few cases and check them in the gage and then see if the empty unloaded brass will go into the chamber and extract without and issues, IMO that's easier than pulling off the barrel, if the brass is good than you have other issues! that may warrant pulling the barrel, I also use a tapper crimp die with bullets that have a Candler groove, and it's a very light crimp and only at the groove area of the bullet, YMMV

Because you'll be using it in the chamber. That is the end-all and be-all of whether or not it fits, and if you have the rifle, you have the chamber, which may or may not fall within SAAMI tolerances. Once you get the rounds to fit the chamber, sure, go ahead and bounce that against the case gauge, if it's easier for you. But why would you add another possible variable when you're trying to troubleshoot?