Need a powder recommendation for 223 AI

[montana_native]

I had a straight taper 28" 223AI barrel made by Brux/SinArms on a Savage. The reason it's so big is to reduce recoil as much as possible for my 10 year old daughter.

I found a load that shoots the 75 gr A-max very well. 25.6 gr of Varget, WW brass, CCI400. Under 1/4 MOA. However, velocity is only 2950 or so. I was getting 3025-3040 fps with 26.2 gr of Varget but the cases were getting hard to extract and the groups opened up as well.

Is there a powder that would help bump velocity with this long barrel? I'd like to get velocity closer to 3100 with the 75 gr A-max if possible.

Thanks.

 

[cmillard]

first of all, i would try cci 450 primers. they have a stronger cup. what oal are you loading to? try seating the bullet closer to the lands if you aren't already. give blc-2 or ramshot tac a try. you could also try re-15, re-17, vv n-540, vv n-550. any of these should get your velocities up there. what twist on the barrel? also, i found that if i segregated the brass by weight, the lighter brass could hold more powder and therefore deliver higher velocity. give lake city a try--its mil-spec and the stuff i have averages around 91-92 grains per case. i can really push bullets fast with this brass

 

[ForneyRider]

Try R15.

 

[Laurie]

Yes,

you should be able to run well above 2,950 fps with the 75gn Hornady with the AI version of the cartridge and 28" of barrel.

I'd agree completely with Cole to switch to SRM primers with hot loads, CCI-400s will normally pierce before you get full MVs and the magnum versions may help up the velocity a bit too. Winchester brass should be fine as it's usually pretty 'roomy' which is what you want.

You should be able to get more velocity out of VarGet with good results. How is the barrel throated - ie what COAL are you running at with the 75gn Hornady and do you know where that is in relation to contacting the rifling. If it's overly short-throated, you've got an uphill road with this little cartridge as the bullet will be deep seated and lose you a lot of powder space.

Jerry Tierney did a lot of work in 2009 at Sacramento with .223 in a 30" barrel Palma rifle with 80s and 90s. (He later cut the barrel back to see what effect it had on MV and the answer is you don't lose much at all with a 28" over 30" with this cartridge.) VarGet and Reloder 15 were the velocity kings with 80s, Reloder 15 and Viht N550 with 90s.

I've had high MVs with AA-2520 in a 26" barrel .223R with this bullet - nudging 3,000 fps which was way ahead of anything else, and accuracy was reasonable ay anything below the very top loads. It's a very dirty burning powder though - I wouldn't use it for that reason alone.

Laurie

 

[GerryM]

Shouldn't the powder capacity of the 223 ackley be close or the same as a 222mag?

 

[montana_native]

Thanks for the quick replies.

OAL is 2.425" and is 0.015" off the lands. I had it throated for the bigger bullets. Barrel twist is 1:8.

I am beginning to wonder if my Chrono is indicating slow. I have a 300 WM and 243 AI I spend a lot of time shooting and I always have to bump the BC of the bullet up to match the MV.

 

[BHarvey]

A friend of mine gets 3060 fps with a 22" barrel using the 75 Amax and 2520 in his 223AI. Accuracy is very good.

You might try some H414 with that long barrel.

 

[Laurie]

OAL is 2.425" and is 0.015" off the lands. I had it throated for the bigger bullets. Barrel twist is 1:8.

I am beginning to wonder if my Chrono is indicating slow. I have a 300 WM and 243 AI I spend a lot of time shooting and I always have to bump the BC of the bullet up to match the MV.

Your throating is fine for the 75 - so no problem there. Yes. it may well be worth comparing your chrono's reading against somebody else's. A small error translates into quite a few fps at the 3,000 mark.

With the 8" twist, it may be worth going up to the 80s and see how they perform in this barrel. I always liked the 75 A-Max as a bullet that performs well and can be given good velocities, but the 80s are ballistically superior, and often group really well.

Laurie

 

[Laurie]

There's a new thread in the 'Small Stuff ............" section re this very issue where the Canadian .223 users are telling a guy to switch from the 75 A-Max to 80s in a long-barrelled .223, called:

75 AMax moly in .223

 

[manitou210]

80gr bullets and VT 550 should please you

 

[montana_native]

Did a little shopping yesterday and all I was able to find that was recommended was some RL15. I will load up a few and see what happens.

Thanks again for all of the advice.

 

[acloco]

Results with a 26" barrel and my Pact chrono. Please work your loads up.

Of note, I only use CCI450 primers.

H4895, Benchmark, and RL15 will all be your new friends.

STRING 04
SHOT VELOCITY h4895 75 amax
1 2948.3 24.6
2 2948.3 24.8
3 3015.8 25
4 3008.4 25.2
5 3061.7 25.4
6 3073.7 25.6
7 3079.6 25.8
8 3109.1 26
9 3167.9 26.2
10 3155.4 26.4


SHOT VELOCITY h4895 69 Nos
1 3115.2 25
2 3014.2 25.2
3 3011.7 25.4
4 3039 25.6
5 3076.2 25.8
6 3117 26
7 3126.7 26.2
8 3152.5 26.4
9 3169.7 26.6
10 3194.4 26.8
11 3247.9 27
12 3254.6 27.2
13 3279.7 27.4
14 3295.3 27.6
15 3346.1 27.8

 

[montana_native]

Thanks for that data. Where would a good starting load for RL15 be if you wouldn't mind sharing?

Thanks.

 

[vonb]

Good AI load recipes:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=526213#Post526213

 

[762willdo]

CCI 450's and 26 gr's. of R-15 + 77 smk

 

[montana_native]

RL15 didn't work well in this gun. Slower than Varget by about 75 FPS before I got a sticky bolt lift and groups weren't as good. I've got some H4895 I might try next.

 

[zedsdead]

+1 on the H4895. In my limited experience with the 223AI it has done better with accuracy and velocity than Varget, especially with the heavier bullets.

Jason

 

[acloco]

Top of the page... http://www.6mmbr.com/cartridgeguides.html

None for RL15 though....

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

 

[montana_native]

Looks like Benchmark is the powder for this gun. 3060 fps, ES of 11 and a 0.291" group at 100.

I can live with that.

Thanks for all of the advice.