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Need a little help. Been reloading for a while and Im struggling!

Also you can kinda feel the carbon with a tight patch it won’t hardly go then busts lose and goes smooth, another way with a dry patch be careful and I can’t express that enough go slow and be very careful! Not to rub your crown! But on a clean barrel run a clean patch in from the crown end of barrel maybe about a foot and go back and forth a bit then pull it out if it’s clean no grey or black then go in from action end with another new clean dry patch and work throat just a little and push out the end if is grey or black you more then likely have carbon
Wayne
 
I recently tried Sharp Shooters R - carb-out. A couple wet patches with a patch of accelerator, my Rem sendero 7saum cleaned up easily. I let it work for a 1/2 hour, patched it out after a flush with Free All.
 
Matt,
If you worked up initial loads with the magnospeed then removed it and went with other chronograph this could be part of your problem. IMHO being strapped to the barrel it can change harmonics and acted like a tuner so to speak you may have to re tune load without it. I have one and love it for quick velocity reference but found out right away poi and grouping changes with it.
Wayne

no my initial load was tested with magnetospeed to get velocity, then tested without for groupings and seating depth tests. Then confirmed drops too 1100 and everything was great! Then it just changed. Mirage picked up and my dope was off a bit on the last outing but okay. but then accuracy went to shit shortly after that shoot. Velocity increased, accuracy went way out! Re strapped magnetospeed and got 70+FPS difference.
 
Also you can kinda feel the carbon with a tight patch it won’t hardly go then busts lose and goes smooth, another way with a dry patch be careful and I can’t express that enough go slow and be very careful! Not to rub your crown! But on a clean barrel run a clean patch in from the crown end of barrel maybe about a foot and go back and forth a bit then pull it out if it’s clean no grey or black then go in from action end with another new clean dry patch and work throat just a little and push out the end if is grey or black you more then likely have carbon
Wayne

I’m sorry I’m a little confused by this post. Running a dry patch why do I have to be careful? Aren’t I looking for the carbon by the throat not the crown?
 
Okay gentleman, I’ve ordered a Borescope will be here next Tuesday! I’m trying to locate some jb bore paste or lisso to try. Going pick up some clr in the mean time to try. Have lots of tight jags and nylon brushes. I have boretech eliminator that I normally use again. Unfortunately new scale won’t be here for 4-6 weeks but I can’t wait on that, just see if I can clean and test it out again with the gem pro.

I’m going start with clr and here’s kind of what I’ve been reading with it.

-run a soaked patch back and forth in the throat area about 15 times and push through. -run a soaked patch through entire barrel
-let sit for 3-5 mins and run nylon brush back and forth in throat area 15 times (for super stubborn ring sping rod and brush in throat)
-push dry patches until all clr has been removed
-clean normal with eliminator afterwards.

tbis sound about right?
 
I’m sorry I’m a little confused by this post. Running a dry patch why do I have to be careful? Aren’t I looking for the carbon by the throat not the crown?

Matt,
Maybe I didn’t explain that well enough I’ll pm you tomorrow I’m off to bed. Sounds like you have a nice shooter I bet you get it back on track again soon.
Wayne
 
Use your bronze brush in the throat area with some boretech about 15-20 times back and forth, then take a couple patches with boretech and they should be black. If not then you don't have a carbon ring. That is what I do when my 308 groups start opening up.
Tarey
 
Use your bronze brush in the throat area with some boretech about 15-20 times back and forth, then take a couple patches with boretech and they should be black. If not then you don't have a carbon ring. That is what I do when my 308 groups start opening up.
Tarey

So I first tried to run a dry patch through and couldn’t get past the throat with all the force in the world. Thought I was going break the rod. I then did exactly what you said and it was blacker then anything I’ve seen before. I proceeded to remove the carbon ring with boretech and clr. I believe I got it with the clr then finished off with boretech. I will load up this weekend a few foulers and try again

Address possibly of carbon 1st, then double check throat erosion.

so I believe I’ve got the carbon, and then double checked the throat erosion and it looks to have eroded 10 thou. Original cbto was 2.275” and after deep clean and re check I’m 2.284-2.285”

so I’m going load up 5-10 foulers and then proceed with another ladder test at .005 thou off and see where this takes me. Hoping to be back on track in no time.
 
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So I first tried to run a dry patch through and couldn’t get past the throat with all the force in the world. Thought I was going break the rod. I then did exactly what you said and it was blacker then anything I’ve seen before. I proceeded to remove the carbon ring with boretech and clr. I believe I got it with the clr then finished off with boretech. I will load up this weekend a few foulers and try again



so I believe I’ve got the carbon, and then double checked the throat erosion and it looks to have eroded 10 thou. Original oal was 2.275” and after deep clean and re check I’m 2.284-2.285”

so I’m going load up 5-10 foulers and then proceed with another ladder test at .005 thou off and see where this takes me. Hoping to be back on track in no time.
Dont measure Coal!!
Measure CBTO , it's the ogive to lands your after.
Now that my apple crown advice is over, just add the difference from prior load to new load and see if it get you back to your sweet spot.
 
So I first tried to run a dry patch through and couldn’t get past the throat with all the force in the world. Thought I was going break the rod. I then did exactly what you said and it was blacker then anything I’ve seen before. I proceeded to remove the carbon ring with boretech and clr. I believe I got it with the clr then finished off with boretech. I will load up this weekend a few foulers and try again



so I believe I’ve got the carbon, and then double checked the throat erosion and it looks to have eroded 10 thou. Original oal was 2.275” and after deep clean and re check I’m 2.284-2.285”

so I’m going load up 5-10 foulers and then proceed with another ladder test at .005 thou off and see where this takes me. Hoping to be back on track in no time.
and if it still shoots bad I'd try a different scope. Cause I'm a reloading dummy. Mike
 
Lose the nylon brush and get a bronze one. Keep this from happening again. Use nylon for your teeth and shotgun parts
I agree, they are useless. They don't have the cutting edge. Yeah. You gotta buy new ones, so what. Sinclair. or Brownells has good ones too!
And yeah, I agree with most every bodies opinion, on the carbon. I'd bet on it. The new powders are terrible with it. Carb cleaner works good too. Also, leave some Kroil in the bore, after shooting.dry patch before shooting, it will come out dark, or pitch black sometimes.
 
Dont measure Coal!!
Measure CBTO , it's the ogive to lands your after.
Now that my apple crown advice is over, just add the difference from prior load to new load and see if it get you back to your sweet spot.

I apologize I used the wrong abbreviation! It was a long long day yesterday by the time I posted I didn’t even notice. I did measure cbto. I will post my results later this weekend hopefully.


Thank you everyone for your help. It was highly appreciated and needed!! Now I have a new scale, bore scope, cleaners on its way so hopefully I can stay on top of this and don’t need to struggle again!!
 
Had a 6mm creed built last year. Rifle is a Kelbly atlas tac short action, bartlein 27” medium Palma, manners t5, tt diamond. I put a load together, 42.8grs of h-4350 at 3137fps from 120 rds to 260 rds down the bbl. shot like a house on fire. Towards the end of the 260rds my velocity and pressure spiked a bit, accuracy went way down hill!! Cold weather hit and it sat for the winter.

fast forward till this past Saturday. All brass is fl sized, bumped .002. I cleaned the rifle like crazy. Loaded up a few at 42 for Fowler’s. Then did a later test at 300 yards. Results from Saturday showed 42-42.6 showed a node with an Es of 7 and a velocity of 3172. Loaded up a few at 42.3 and back out Sunday to start testing.

average velocity sunday was 3203 with an average sd of 4.5 but groups were terrible. Basically 1 moa. Confused by the results I figured I must of made a mistake and picked 1 round from each group and set it aside and pulled it at home to double check, and 42.3 grs.

Re loaded and did another ladder. Velocities were different by a good amount again. Nodes weren’t visible,

Shut off my Lyman scale (just to throw the main charge then trickle onto gempro for accuracy) figuring maybe the Lyman is throwing off the gempro.

loaded up 2 more ladders tonight and once again results were different again!! Node isn’t nearly as visible but might have something. I have no idea what’s going on or how to proceed. I hate how much the gempro drifts and how the Lyman isn’t all that accurate. I finally just ordered the a&d fx-120i v3 combo for piece of mind but won’t be here for 4-6 weeks.

how do I proceed and what should I be looking at.
That 6mm Creed is quite a hot rod.....
 
Alright fellas here it is. Cleaned out the carbon last night, and wouldn’t you know it bore scope showed up this morning. Took a peak and still the slightest ring so removed it and and loaded up a few foulers and then two ladders to shoot at 400 yards.

Ladder one.

3ECA6E07-93C4-45A7-8342-38C4CE8E8BCE.jpeg

Ladder 2

090C3FE5-B9C8-4028-9156-A583911ADCFA.jpeg

The wind was insane today, really should of waited but looks like it was the carbon. Even in 52km/h 90* winds with 67km/h gusts it still shot under .5moa vertical and first one was about .75moa horizontal and second one I took more time reading the wind and got it back to under .5 moa horizontal as well.

ladders were as read;

Ladder number 1 Ladder number 2

41.6. 3131. 3131
41.8. 3151. 3142
42. 3164. 3158
42.2. 3173. 3167
42.4. 3169. 3161
42.6. 3185. 3182
42.8. 3190. 3205
 

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