Need a little help. Been reloading for a while and Im struggling!

[Matt_3479]

Had a 6mm creed built last year. Rifle is a Kelbly atlas tac short action, bartlein 27” medium Palma, manners t5, tt diamond. I put a load together, 42.8grs of h-4350 at 3137fps from 120 rds to 260 rds down the bbl. shot like a house on fire. Towards the end of the 260rds my velocity and pressure spiked a bit, accuracy went way down hill!! Cold weather hit and it sat for the winter.

fast forward till this past Saturday. All brass is fl sized, bumped .002. I cleaned the rifle like crazy. Loaded up a few at 42 for Fowler’s. Then did a later test at 300 yards. Results from Saturday showed 42-42.6 showed a node with an Es of 7 and a velocity of 3172. Loaded up a few at 42.3 and back out Sunday to start testing.

average velocity sunday was 3203 with an average sd of 4.5 but groups were terrible. Basically 1 moa. Confused by the results I figured I must of made a mistake and picked 1 round from each group and set it aside and pulled it at home to double check, and 42.3 grs.

Re loaded and did another ladder. Velocities were different by a good amount again. Nodes weren’t visible,

Shut off my Lyman scale (just to throw the main charge then trickle onto gempro for accuracy) figuring maybe the Lyman is throwing off the gempro.

loaded up 2 more ladders tonight and once again results were different again!! Node isn’t nearly as visible but might have something. I have no idea what’s going on or how to proceed. I hate how much the gempro drifts and how the Lyman isn’t all that accurate. I finally just ordered the a&d fx-120i v3 combo for piece of mind but won’t be here for 4-6 weeks.

how do I proceed and what should I be looking at.

 

[Matt_3479]

Here are results from ladders

41- 3087
41.2- 3108
41.4- 3129
41.6- 3137
41.8- 3140
42- 3170
42.2- 3170
42.4- 3177
42.6- 3172
42.8- 3194
43- 3214

Sunday

42.3 grs tested with average velcity of 3203 with average sd of 4.5

monday

was 2 strings of

41.6- 3172. 3176
41.8- 3180. 3184
42- 3147. 3173
42.2- 3149. 3157
42.4- 3149. 3161
42.6- 3168. 3157

then today 2 strings

41.6- 3095. 3106
41.8- 3112. 3118
42- 3131. 3126
42.2- 3144. 3126
42.4- 3158. 3140
42.6- 3167. 3166
42.8- 3170. 3181

 

[lawman29]

Primer? Bullet? Brass?

 

[Pwhite11798]

Need a little more info what bullet, primer, dies your using, jump or jam, and if you have checked contricity. Are you single feeding or mag feeding? I have run similar scale setups and had good results. I did eventually change to a fx 120i several years ago for piece of mind. Also i ran into a situation where it had nothing to do with my load it was a copper fouling spot in my barrel that had developed. Took a good borescope to find and bore paste to remove.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Your powder charge accuracy will improve with the 120i, but it's most likely not a powder issue. Nodes are typically wide enough that you're not going to see 'crazy' levels of dispersion @300 yards even if you're +/- .1gr.

As the poster mentioned above, what components are you using in this load? Did you by chance switch to a different lot of anything when it 'stopped shooting'? Did you do any depth work?

You mention the brass is FL sized; what type of dies? Are you trimming the cases? Are you annealing? Are you neck turning? Not that all this is required, just trying to get a better sense of what's going on.

How are these rounds being shot? Prone off a rest? Harris off a bench?

 

[Murray Brook]

You mentioned that at the 240 round count that your velocity and pressure spiked. Maybe a carbon ring is your problem. Have you scoped your chamber?

 

[bozo699]

Carbon is my vote as soon as I read velocity spikes and accuracy went south it was my first thought. You own a bore scope?
Wayne

 

[Ringostar]

I agree about checking for carbon ring. Where are your target pics? I would rather see impact variations, not just chrono readings. Any changes in the way that you hold the rifle, can effect velocity.

 

[Pwhite11798]

I agree about checking for carbon ring. Where are your target pics? I would rather see impact variations, not just chrono readings. Any changes in the way that you hold the rifle, can effect velocity.

Shot stringing patterns can help with troubleshooting.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Could be Carbon ring. Sometimes its hard to tell without a borescope. You can get some chameleon gel and thatll buy you some time. Also what are the temperature differences in when it shot good and now?

 

[Burnt Powder]

I agree about checking for carbon ring. Where are your target pics? I would rather see impact variations, not just chrono readings. Any changes in the way that you hold the rifle, can effect velocity.

Just curious, how does the way you hold the rifle effect velocity? It can change several other things, but this piques my interest? Always looking to eliminate another variable, could this be one of those variables?

 

[Matt_3479]

Sorry gentleman! I’m shooting berger 105’s from same lot, h-4350 from same lot, cci 450 from same lot and alpha 6mm Creedmoor small rifle primer brass.

brass is trimmed, chamfered and debureed. Using Redding type s comp dies with .002-.003 neck tension, bumping shoulders .002 back. Seating bullets from initial load development at .005 thou off lands and was having phenomenal success. I do not anneal, is neck turn.

the reason I initially thought it was scale was cause I was working up a new bullet for another rifle and had same weird experiences with the second rifle with tends to be a shooter. From Saturday to Sunday velocities were extremely different!! I apologize but I ended up ruining my targets yesterday. Work truck went down, and had to use personal vehicle and had targets in there which I forgot about at the time.

I’m now sitting around 340-350 ish rounds, I’d have to double check. I do not own a bore scope. What’s everyone’s preference on removing a carbon ring? Jp bore paste? I’ll order whatever now and work the chamber/throat area

 

[WyleWD]

Were you using wind flags during your testing? Also, what chronograph are you using?WD

 

[ppaul]

Matt, my first suggestion after you get a look inside your bore is to get a decent beam scale. Doesn't have to be a parker tuned one, just something you can trust. Also a set of check weights. It removes any doubt.
Get one of the teslong bore scopes, cheap enough and you can monitor your cleaning program and also trouble shoot problems.
and yes, what chronograph?

 

[dgeesaman]

I’m now sitting around 340-350 ish rounds, I’d have to double check. I do not own a bore scope. What’s everyone’s preference on removing a carbon ring? Jp bore paste? I’ll order whatever now and work the chamber/throat area

Go on Amazon and buy a Teslong bore scope. $50 to $75. Or if they are unavailable borrow or pay a gunsmith to inspect.

JB bore paste short stroked with a tight patch is one good option. There are many options. Just make certain you have a good bore guide and you’re not rubbing the rod in the barrel or crown.

With the bore scope you can now focus on cleaning what needs cleaned and not rub the metal that is already clean.

Another thought, since I see SRP Creedmoor brass here: are you getting good ignition? My only attempt at 6.5CM was in winter using Lapua SRP brass and I got hang fires when I used less punchy primers and/or a powder that didn’t fill the case. I did better with slower powder and Rem 7-1/2 primers.

 

[Matt_3479]

Were you using wind flags during your testing? Also, what chronograph are you using?WD

Im using magnetospeed v3 and had a lab radar for Saturday Sunday. the range I shoot has wind flags both large and small at 100,200 and 300 and I set out a few small ones at 150-250 on my walk out to set out targets.

 

[Matt_3479]

Matt, my first suggestion after you get a look inside your bore is to get a decent beam scale. Doesn't have to be a parker tuned one, just something you can trust. Also a set of check weights. It removes any doubt.
Get one of the teslong bore scopes, cheap enough and you can monitor your cleaning program and also trouble shoot problems.
and yes, what chronograph?

well I have the a&d fx-120i combo on its way

 

[Matt_3479]

Go on Amazon and buy a Teslong bore scope. $50 to $75. Or if they are unavailable borrow or pay a gunsmith to inspect.

JB bore paste short stroked with a tight patch is one good option. There are many options. Just make certain you have a good bore guide and you’re not rubbing the rod in the barrel or crown.

With the bore scope you can now focus on cleaning what needs cleaned and not rub the metal that is already clean.

Another thought, since I see SRP Creedmoor brass here: are you getting good ignition? My only attempt at 6.5CM was in winter using Lapua SRP brass and I got hang fires when I used less punchy primers and/or a powder that didn’t fill the case. I did better with slower powder and Rem 7-1/2 primers.

it seems to be good ignition. I’ve tried both 71/2 and cci 450 and seemed to get better results (better es and geoups) with the 450 when I had a good load. No hang fires or anything.

is there a bore guide everyone recommends? I have a Tipton that I use but can upgrade if someone suggest something different. I’ll get some jb bore paste on order today!!

what is the general way to use it. Tight patch and smother patch in jb and worked back and forth in the throat area and the 1 or 2 passes through the barrel but don’t have the patch exit correct?

 

[dgeesaman]

what is the general way to use it. Tight patch and smother patch in jb and worked back and forth in the throat area and the 1 or 2 passes through the barrel but don’t have the patch exit correct?

That’s basically what I’ve done but I will defer to the vastly more experienced individuals here. Don’t be surprised when they don’t all agree.

 

[bozo699]

Matt,
If you worked up initial loads with the magnospeed then removed it and went with other chronograph this could be part of your problem. IMHO being strapped to the barrel it can change harmonics and acted like a tuner so to speak you may have to re tune load without it. I have one and love it for quick velocity reference but found out right away poi and grouping changes with it.
Wayne