BoydAllen said:
It seems to me, based on my experience, that there are a couple of things going on here. If someone tells me that he gets away with just neck sizing, I know something about the pressure of his loads. It is not high. Also, a lot of the avoidance of FL sizing comes from experience with dies that are a poor match for the chambers that they are used with, and the fact that typical, one piece dies over size necks, and then when the expander is pulled through, the axial force required is so great that case necks become cocked relative to bodies, due to uneven yielding at the shoulder. Proper dies solve these problems, but they are more expensive, and back in the day, I was not aware of their availability. Perhaps 20 or more years back, short range benchrest shooters tended to avoid FL sizing, principly because they did not have the dies available that have been available for a number of years since then. The FL die that I use for my 6PPC reduces the base of fired cases about .0005 and the shoulder about .002. I generally set it to bump .001 from the shoulder to head dimension of a case that chambers tight in that particular barrel. My case life and growth are excellent, and given that I shoot warm loads, if I want the bolt close to be decent, I must FL size. On the other hand, I have a friend that uses a .223 for varminting, that hardly ever FL sizes. Evidently his loads for that caliber are not all that hot. Recently when he started playing with a .204 Ruger project, he found that because he was trying to match the velocities that a friend is getting, that to his consternation that he had bolt closing issues, that required him to FL size. This was not a happy discovery, given the ease of his usual collet die routine with his .223. Bottom line, if you are happy with the accuracy you are getting, and you are not having issues closing your bolt, or loosing cases, then whatever you are doing is right for you. On the other hand, what you do may be entirely unsuitable for someone else who loads to different pressure level. Like a lot of things, the answer is it depends.
Boyd...
I usually enjoy your posts - they are well thought out - but this is an apples and tomatoes response.
"If someone tells me that he gets away with just neck sizing, I know something about the pressure of his loads. It is not high."
Not necessarily true - pressures in the 55Kpsia range do not stretch cases in a strong steel action, with a two piece bolt - maybe in an aluminum receiver with a one piece bolt... but many shooters do not have this problem.
If you have a problem with your rifle's action having some stretch, or the case design, then feel free to use a FL die, but to assume that it must be done for all guns is patently wrong... for those that do not have these problems, FL sizing is unnecessary.
"Also, a lot of the avoidance of FL sizing comes from experience with dies that are a poor match for the chambers that they are used with, and the fact that typical, one piece dies over size necks, and then when the expander is pulled through, the axial force required is so great that case necks become cocked relative to bodies, due to uneven yielding at the shoulder."
I did not think the level of this discussion was referring to "one piece FL dies", like the 20 dollar RCBS FL die that comes with the Reloader Jr. kit.
I was referring to the Neck size die like the Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizer - there is no expander, and finished run-out is ~1 thou or less.
"My case life and growth are excellent, and given that I shoot warm loads, if I want the bolt close to be decent, I must FL size."
My case growth is almost non-existent and case life is very long. I have never FL sized the brass for either of my bench rifles, one on a 222 family case and the other is a 6mmBR.
And in 1975, I bought a 40XB in 22-250, and 400 cases. I went through 5 barrels with those cases, only having to FL size twice when new barrels came with smaller chambers - when I threw the brass away (I took the 12 step pledge on the 22-250), it was still shooting fine after ~45 loadings each. They were heavy (3,800fps) loads.
When I was loading at the range some years back, I decided to see how many firings it would take to stop a 308, either by no longer chambering or the head falling off. The load was 43.6gr Varget and a 175 SMK at 2680 (a fairly stiff load) - the case was neck sized with a Redding Bushing "S" neck sizing die, and I quit at 28, the case was fine, but I was wearing out. At no time was there any resistance to closing the bolt.
The point of the last part of this thread is... that there is no "One solution fits all" in shooting, but some folks are myopic and think that everything MUST be done only one way, and always the same way.
When I started shooting bench, the shooters and their attitudes were very different than now - they were curious, and wanted to try new stuff (or re-visit old stuff), and hear what others were doing - now it seems to be 181° opposite, "Please Mr Expert, tell me what to do and I will do it exactly like you tell me."
I was reading a thread here a few weeks ago, and someone said that today's PB Bench shooters were not skilled shooters, they were appliance operators. I don't think that applies to all, but it sure as hell applies to most.
;D 
