I have a set of check weights left over from pharmaceutical chemistry lab plus a second electronic scale to double check with.
My reloading has been compromised
- Thread starter ebb
- Start date
I took a piece of stainless steel at work and ground it down till it weighed about 33 grains. I weighed it on an extremely accurate lab scale. I engraved the wt. on my standard. All I care about is it weighs the same each time I verify. I don’t need to know if the scale is off .2 grains, as long as it is off the same amount each time it doesn’t matter. You don't need expensive standards. If your scale reads 40.0 each time and it's really 40.1 it doesn't matter as long as it allows you to make each charge the same.
I agree that "Sameness" is important when reloading.
I have used home made "Working Standard weights".
Having access to both very accurate weights and a very accurate balance I can check my own.
The advantage of commercial SS, non magnetic mass standards is LONG TERM Stability, NO sharp edges, and smooth surface finish to to resist dirt, grime and corrosion.
Lose it and buy a replacement, 20 years down the road.
I have used home made "Working Standard weights".
Having access to both very accurate weights and a very accurate balance I can check my own.
The advantage of commercial SS, non magnetic mass standards is LONG TERM Stability, NO sharp edges, and smooth surface finish to to resist dirt, grime and corrosion.
Lose it and buy a replacement, 20 years down the road.
I found the other scale It is a 505 RCBS and it was filthy. After a good clean up, i started to throw 41 grain charges with the Chargemaster, I would pour them into the pan of the 505 the first 4 throws came up dead on 41 grains, then I got several they would not balance out the 505. The 505 was adjusted to balance to 40.9 on the 5th, and 40.8 on the 6th and 7th. I could tarnsfer the powder back to the pan that the CM came with and it would come up 40.8 and then the CM drifted to 41. It looks like the scale went out of its way to deceive me that every throw was 41 grains. What in the world is up with that?????? Ok so till I can repair the CM or rule that it is junk, I will be loading with the 505 like I did before the CM. I want to use one of the electronic magnifiers that I read about here, and Ive seen pictures of. What is involved in that and where do I find the hardware???
Readings that climb with settling time are pretty normal with Strain Gage Scales.
Comparing charges thrown with your beam scale with a 0.2 grain difference doesn't sound all that bad.
You would have to do enough of them (10, 20 or 30) to establish metrics like Mean and E.S.
Comparing charges thrown with your beam scale with a 0.2 grain difference doesn't sound all that bad.
You would have to do enough of them (10, 20 or 30) to establish metrics like Mean and E.S.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
This. I have to rezero my gempro every 5 or so weighings.
A little Sameness experiment.
Break open the kids piggy bank and get some nice shinny new pennies.
Find 3 or so that are close to the same weight.
Work them with some 400-600 paper to get them to read 0.1grain different using your beam scale.
Work slow and try and get them as close as possible to 0.1grain steps.
Actual weight doesn't matter.
Test digital against mechanical.
Break open the kids piggy bank and get some nice shinny new pennies.
Find 3 or so that are close to the same weight.
Work them with some 400-600 paper to get them to read 0.1grain different using your beam scale.
Work slow and try and get them as close as possible to 0.1grain steps.
Actual weight doesn't matter.
Test digital against mechanical.
I apprecate the offer but I don't need to impose on you like that. I can surely sand a few pennies or what ever it takes to figure this out. But what I do value is the advise and direction. Thanks all of you guys. I will dink with this till I get it figured out, just keep pointing me in the right direction!
It's not an imposition, took about 1/2 hour to work them and process the image collage.
You could also use them as temporary CHECK WEIGHTS, probably as good as you will need.
Why don't you work some in your spare time, PM your address, and I'll send these.
You could also use them as temporary CHECK WEIGHTS, probably as good as you will need.
Why don't you work some in your spare time, PM your address, and I'll send these.
Is the chargemaster repairable with its fluctuations? Is there a programming change I can make to up the accuracy? If I was to decide to move up to a lab grade scale, could any of you make recommendations??? How do you compare accuracy of different scales? What I have looked at so far make accuracy claim in grams. is there a number in grams that would be good for my reloading? I was satisfied with the Chargemaster it claimed .1 grain ( was probably more like .2) but maybe if i am going to upgrade maybe I need to look at .05 grains?
General accuracy specs for scales considered adequate for reloading usually advertise 1 milligram (in gram mode or 0.0154grains) and usually display to 0.02 grains in grain mode.
In practice you can usually trust readings to about twice that.
Plenty of sort of cheap milligram scales. But you would still need appropriate check weights.
In practice you can usually trust readings to about twice that.
Plenty of sort of cheap milligram scales. But you would still need appropriate check weights.
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All the satisfied CM users out there shooting with reasonable precision is empirical evidence that loading to within 0.3gr is adequate repeatability for the vast majority of shooters. Look at the target and decide.
Small case-capacity cartridges and ELR shooters would need something better. There even a Lee balance outshines low cost digital scales with regards to repeatability.
Small case-capacity cartridges and ELR shooters would need something better. There even a Lee balance outshines low cost digital scales with regards to repeatability.
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
I‘m sorry to hear about your CM ebb. I don’t have the original CM. I used two CM lites for a couple years and then gave them to friends and replaced them with CM supremes. With both units I calibrate them every 50 rounds, I have check weights I also use. My power is clean, no vents in room and the temp stays at a constant. I did notice that my SD and ES numbers went down when I started using the supremes.
I look at the CM as scales with expiration date, seems like I see a lot of comments that “my CM worked great for years and then went to crap” as good as RCBS’s customer service is I don’t think it’s up to the same level when charge masters are concerned. There’s a ton of threads on the subject.
I run two supremes at a time which means one machine measures out a charge and then the next machine measures out a charge, they are accurate enough to get consistent single digit SD numbers with multiple rifles using both machines at the same time. That’s good enough for me.
I look at the CM as scales with expiration date, seems like I see a lot of comments that “my CM worked great for years and then went to crap” as good as RCBS’s customer service is I don’t think it’s up to the same level when charge masters are concerned. There’s a ton of threads on the subject.
I run two supremes at a time which means one machine measures out a charge and then the next machine measures out a charge, they are accurate enough to get consistent single digit SD numbers with multiple rifles using both machines at the same time. That’s good enough for me.
I'm late to the party here and this has likely already been said. For my precision loads I use an automated measure to "throw" my loads with then weigh each one on my beam scale. I just don't trust digital scales that much.
For plinking type ammo like 223 for example I find a load that the rifle likes that is in the mid range and I just let the measure throw those. I will still check weigh occasionally.
For plinking type ammo like 223 for example I find a load that the rifle likes that is in the mid range and I just let the measure throw those. I will still check weigh occasionally.
Home range that has always been a concern, when I move he pan to fill a case I can see powder trickle out of the spout and drop on the platen. I usually blow the excess powder off to the bench but some has to get down in the works of the scale. As far as check weights, why does it have to be ground or machined to a specific weight? As long as I use the same one, it should come up with the same value on the scale each time and on other scales? I have some little electronic scales my daughter gave me. The all have a check weight that is much more appropriate to weighing powder charges than what came with the CM.
Whatever a reloader uses to dump/weigh powder he needs to have confidence in charges thrown.
If a dispenser throws high or low, or a scale isn't repeatable then how can you have confidence that your charges match your desired weight?
For my smallish cartridge (22 Nosler) StaBall 6.5 and little granules with a 31 to 32 grain charge, each 0.1 grain variation gives me about 12fps variation in muzzle velocity. Each little granule of SB6.5 is about 0.005 grains, about one count on my main scale (much less than a kernel of Varget)
.
I feel I need to toss/weigh to better than 0.1 grain.
I set a second hand Lyman Gen 5 to a tenth less, dump pan onto the EJ-54D2. I then pinch the required granules to bring it up to my target weight.
I use the low range and selected 10 grams as my calibration point. I have found that scale calibration is VERY stable over time. I check @ 1, 2, 3 grams for each reloading session. It's been months since recalibration has been needed. Note that level will impact calibration since the scale responds to local/vertical gravity. Move the scale, recalibrate.
I turned auto zero OFF in the menu and get a count or two of zero drift if the room is not temperature stable.
If my empty scale cup does not indicate zero I check for stuck granules in the cup. One or two and it shows on the display. I dump the scale cup into the case through a funnel held in my hand, start a bullet, seat, put the cartridge in the loading block. All uncharged cases are primer UP. No powder goes near the block without a bullet in it.
Since I am weighing to much better than necessary, my charge weight accuracy, I think, is insignificant.
I also use the EJ-54D2 for bullets, brass, powder, primers, and general purpose weighing.
BTW, the 3 pennies weigh one count less this morning
If a dispenser throws high or low, or a scale isn't repeatable then how can you have confidence that your charges match your desired weight?
For my smallish cartridge (22 Nosler) StaBall 6.5 and little granules with a 31 to 32 grain charge, each 0.1 grain variation gives me about 12fps variation in muzzle velocity. Each little granule of SB6.5 is about 0.005 grains, about one count on my main scale (much less than a kernel of Varget)
.I feel I need to toss/weigh to better than 0.1 grain.
I set a second hand Lyman Gen 5 to a tenth less, dump pan onto the EJ-54D2. I then pinch the required granules to bring it up to my target weight.
I use the low range and selected 10 grams as my calibration point. I have found that scale calibration is VERY stable over time. I check @ 1, 2, 3 grams for each reloading session. It's been months since recalibration has been needed. Note that level will impact calibration since the scale responds to local/vertical gravity. Move the scale, recalibrate.
I turned auto zero OFF in the menu and get a count or two of zero drift if the room is not temperature stable.
If my empty scale cup does not indicate zero I check for stuck granules in the cup. One or two and it shows on the display. I dump the scale cup into the case through a funnel held in my hand, start a bullet, seat, put the cartridge in the loading block. All uncharged cases are primer UP. No powder goes near the block without a bullet in it.
Since I am weighing to much better than necessary, my charge weight accuracy, I think, is insignificant.
I also use the EJ-54D2 for bullets, brass, powder, primers, and general purpose weighing.
BTW, the 3 pennies weigh one count less this morning
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