My newest worst case to reload .22 TCM

[sandwarrior]

So, I've wanted a .22 TCM for a while and finally got one. It's a 1911, but got it cheap with no 9mm barrel. The issue first is load data and available bullets. Also, where to find the powder. Not too economic having to order TCM or 11FS a pound at a time. And, it's way more than I need to order 8lbs. of it. But, there's other powders one could use. You just have to interpolate a starting load. Then go test it. Then load the rest of your cases up.
As to the actual reloading, sizing went pretty well. But, the brass (chrome) I shot and the new brass I have has tight primer pockets. Took a bit more force than I'm used to to seat them in all the way. The brass is pretty short and holding it perfectly under my funnel was a bit of a pain, but I got most of them done without having to dump a partial and start over. I think a dozen times or so. The real pain began when I began seating bullets. I chamfered cases, then had t re-chamfer because it wasn't enough of an opening for the little tiny flatbase bullets to find a seat in the neck. And, spinning the case sometimes seemed to knock it out of that. At first I did the normal thing and raised the ram, then lowered the seating die down onto a case. This seemed to work inconsistently, not to mention I had little room to spin the case. That didn't seem to matter too much as the seater was a bit odd: pics to come. I pulled the seater out and it has this funnel thing on the end. Where the short little hollow points would catch...or not. Some went easy others seemed to start easy, then go hard. Upon removing the cases the bullet had tipped sideways and caught that funnel Some smashed the cases. I tried several means to get the bullets going perfectly straight up the tube, but ruined several cases. And, it didn't take much.
Anyhow, I sxcrewed the die way down, below the top of the press to give me more room to spin cases. Double chamfered every case (VLD and normal), then took the seater out and drilled and polished that stupid funnel. and cases went a lot better. Only lost a couple after that.

The stupid funnel seater: Sorry, pics came out backwards. Third pic is the stupid funnel

Second pic is the bodies of the cases that didn't play well.

First pic is of two bodies who didn't play well, seemed at first to come out ok, but then didn't.

 

[lb-ft]

Ugh

 

[jcm800]

That will keep you out of the bars....lol Interesting concept ultra fast / light bullets.
I've loaded 60 gr XTP's 32's in my 30 carbine BH at around 1900 fps. Would make a nasty hole in a woodchuck.
Good luck with your project!

 

[boltfluter]

Looks challenging, to say the least! Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul

 

[AWS]

Any thoughts to a Lyman type M die to expand the mouth slightly like loading a cast bullet?

What's the deal with spinning the case before seating the bullet?

Or Hornady's seater has an sleeve that slides down over the bullet and neck.of the case to keep it aligned. They make a dedicated 22 TCM die set.

 

[sandwarrior]

Any thoughts to a Lyman type M die to expand the mouth slightly like loading a cast bullet?

What's the deal with spinning the case before seating the bullet?

Or Hornady's seater has an sleeve that slides down over the bullet and neck.of the case to keep it aligned. They make a dedicated 22 TCM die set.

An expanded case mouth would be the ticket. I'll look into it.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Looks like to much tension (more than needed) and not enough case support.
Maybe a "mandrel" to open up the necks a bit?
I'am working with a "20 MGM" wildcat (22TCM necked down to 20) and no seating issues.

 

[Oso]

There is a reason there is limited discussion and load data.... I decided that the Fireball case was the smallest bottleneck cartridge that I would/could reload, and 9mm is as small as I go for straight wall cases. My criteria was that case had to be big enough for me to hold with 2 fingers

Instead of a case flaring die you might consider using an NOE Plug that is .002" larger than your bullet diameter. It will expand the neck (not flare) and create a fraction of a shoulder for bullet to sit on before seating. Mine is set up to expand only the top 1/8" of the neck and the internal shoulder allows the flat based bullets to sit nicely for bullet seating. Buy a Lee Universal Expander Die ($25) to hold the NOE Plug ($10). A light tapered crimp to iron out and remaining flare at case mouth and presto.

 

[Minshooter]

Reminds me of Loading the almost ballistics identical 5.7FN, but with some additional grief.
Fortunately, Lee makes a factory crimp die for 5.7. That helps.
The good thing about 5.7 is every pistol I've shot flings the brass into the
next zip code, so you don't have to load them too many times.

 

[3Ackleys]

I bought one of the combo pistols when they came out. The ser. # is under 2000. Bought a couple thousand rounds of ammo from their place in the Bitteroot. The COL was too long to fit in the mags. So after contacting them many times they sent replacement ammo, and told me to keep the long stuff.

After much experimentation (the bullets are crimped). I took a 9mm seater with the swc plug and swaged the exposed lead back enough to fit in the mags. They don't all fit reliably, maybe 10% will not go very far into the mag.

I have reloaded a couple thousand once fired on a Hornady LNL progressive. I used the bullets Armscor sold. I didn't have too much trouble.

 

[MisterHelix]

What a mess. I am less interested in this cartridge now.

 

[Steel Mover]

I do not like bass scatterers in a hard to form or hard to load cartridge. Hours to prep and load, tossed to the four winds. I usually put a big blue tarp down for my AR cats......aggrivation.

 

[sandwarrior]

What a mess. I am less interested in this cartridge now.

The joy is what the li'l bugger does when you shoot it.

 

[sandwarrior]

I do not like bass scatterers in a hard to form or hard to load cartridge. Hours to prep and load, tossed to the four winds. I usually put a big blue tarp down for my AR cats......aggrivation.

I use a home made brass catcher. 1x4"s made into a square frame and two on the sides to sabilize it. The back is covered in 1/4" garden netting. You can make one as big is you need. Set it on the ejection side of what you are shooting. The brass is all right there easy peasy. I shoot the TCM from a sandbag rest and the brass goes right in. I also use it for all the AR cartridges I shoot.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Spinning the case ?? What??
Yes. you need to flare the case mouth, as you would on a straight walled case, and find a way to close it again. There's plenty of load data available - I would have thought that LilGun would be a good candidate. It uses small pistol primers - I saw Winchester recommended in an article from Handloader magazine, regurgitated on the web.

 

[sandwarrior]

Spinning the case ?? What??
Yes. you need to flare the case mouth, as you would on a straight walled case, and find a way to close it again. There's plenty of load data available - I would have thought that LilGun would be a good candidate. It uses small pistol primers - I saw Winchester recommended in an article from Handloader magazine, regurgitated on the web.

For one, none of the pistol powders I have were listed in the sources I have. That would be Hodgdon, and the load data that came with the dies.
As to spinning the case, when running the case up into the die, if the bullet tips, rotating it will help center it as you raise it. As opposed to it being flopped to one side and catching on the edge of the seater and crushing into the neck.

 

[Oso]

I am fine with flaring straight walled cases. However, I see clear advantage to using NOE Plug to expand case mouth/neck in a bottleneck case. Unlike boat tail bullets with their gradual transition, loading flat based bullet requires a little more prep to avoid crushing or collapsing the neck. Your issue with the bullets tilting and destroying/collapsing the neck can be resolved by opening the case mouth. This can be done either by flaring the case mouth or neck expansion.

I use an NOE Plug for a couple of rifle cartridges that utilize flat based bullets. The NOE Plug allows me to select an specific diameter to expand the case mouth so that the bullet fit into case mouth and sits vertical with any risk of it tilting/leaning off-center. This is a bit different than a standard flaring die that creates a tapered funnel where a bullet can lean or slip off.

The other advantage of the NOE Plug is that I can set the depth of expansion (case mouth and neck) with the resized area being a constant diameter. Whereas, with a flaring die the greater the length/depth of case neck that is flared the wider the case mouth opening becomes.

 

[sandwarrior]

I am fine with flaring straight walled cases. However, I see clear advantage to using NOE Plug to expand case mouth/neck in a bottleneck case.

Unlike boat tail bullets with their gradual transition that helps expand the case mouth/neck during seating, loading flat based bullet requires a little more prep. Your issue with the flat based bullets tilting and destroying/collapsing the neck can be resolved by opening the case mouth. This can be done either by flaring the case mouth or neck expansion.

I use an NOE Plug for a couple of rifle cartridges that utilize flat based bullets. The NOE Plug allows me to select an specific diameter to expand the case mouth so that the bullet fit into case mouth and sits vertical with no risk of it falling out our leaning off-center. This is a bit different than a standard flaring die that creates a tapered funnel, and has the potential to excessively flaring the case mouth/neck.

The other advantage of the NOE Plug is that I can set the depth of expansion (case mouth and neck) with the resized area being a constant diameter. Whereas, with a flaring die the greater the length/depth of case neck that is flared the wider the case mouth opening becomes.

I use it for loading 125gr TNT in 300BO and 300HAMR. The .310" NOE expands the neck just enough for the bullet to slide into and rest of the internal shoulder. It is almost air tight and requires a gentle pull to release the bullet.

I have never used one before, but certainly looks like a better option than all the cases I lost.

 

[NorCalMikie]

You might consider passing on the "plated" brass and stick with the "brass". Much softer and easier to load/expand. Got mine from Ammo Supply Warehouse. Lots of it. Very easy to form and load.

 

[Oso]

I have never used one before, but certainly looks like a better option than all the cases I lost.

For me it came about as I was contemplating steps needed to convert .223/5.56 cases into 300HAM'R cases on a Dillon 1050, and then toolhead setup for also loading. While doing some research the most commonly answer was either the Lyman Type M Die or a Lee Universal Flaring Die with a NOE Plug.

After annealing and expanding necks, I did some tests comparing loading (1) seating bullets into the neck expanded cases (.003" neck tension) and (2) expanding the top of neck with NOE Plug. There was noticeable reduction to amount of force to seat the flat-based bullets and no more crushed neck or collapsed shoulder. I'm using this setup on my flat-based bullets in my rifle cartridges even when loading on my single stage press.