muzzle brake won't come off

[alinwa]

really? would love to hear more? i am always looking for new ideas. what happens with the bases?

Yeahh.... most bases are sliding around under recoil and only 1 in 1000 have aligned rings.

I'm all about MINIMUM you gotta' rough/degrease/epoxy your bases and action....or preferably buy a Stiller or Kelbly with fitted pins, or drill/mill fit some pins, THEN epoxy....and try yer dadgummedest to make thee 2 into 1.

And get a set of Kokopelli Alignment Bars


JUST DO IT!!!

Mounting a scope without Kokopelli's is like setting the tire pressure on your F1 car using a bicycle pump

And no pressure gage

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Yeahh.... most bases are sliding around under recoil and only 1 in 1000 have aligned rings.

I'm all about MINIMUM you gotta' rough/degrease/epoxy your bases and action....or preferably buy a Stiller or Kelbly with fitted pins, or drill/mill fit some pins, THEN epoxy....and try yer dadgummedest to make thee 2 into 1.

And get a set of Kokopelli Alignment Bars


JUST DO IT!!!

Mounting a scope without Kokopelli's is like setting the tire pressure on your F1 car using a bicycle pump

And no pressure gage

Sometimes rings can be very close to perfect alignment and fool the Kokopelli tool because it uses the human eye for verification. 'Seeing' .002" axis misalignment on rings is next to impossible. There's no fooling the tool I use to check alignment. Far better at telling you exactly how perfect ring alignment really is. I can 'feel' .001"-.002" misalignment using my alignment tool, but I can't see it.

Here's a video I made a while back showing the tool I use to ensure perfect alignment before mounting a scope.

 

[alinwa]

Sometimes rings can be very close to perfect alignment and fool the Kokopelli tool because it uses the human eye for verification. 'Seeing' .002" axis misalignment on rings is next to impossible. There's no fooling the tool I use to check alignment. Far better at telling you exactly how perfect ring alignment really is. I can 'feel' .001"-.002" misalignment using my alignment tool, but I can't see it.

Here's a video I made a while back showing the tool I use to ensure perfect alignment before mounting a scope.

I must agree, THAT's a cool tool.....

 

[rockwind1]

Sometimes rings can be very close to perfect alignment and fool the Kokopelli tool because it uses the human eye for verification. 'Seeing' .002" axis misalignment on rings is next to impossible. There's no fooling the tool I use to check alignment. Far better at telling you exactly how perfect ring alignment really is. I can 'feel' .001"-.002" misalignment using my alignment tool, but I can't see it.

Here's a video I made a while back showing the tool I use to ensure perfect alignment before mounting a scope.

what about a spuhr mount, i use that on almost everything. they are sort of one piece units, surely the ring portion is aligned?

 

[rockwind1]

Yeahh.... most bases are sliding around under recoil and only 1 in 1000 have aligned rings.

I'm all about MINIMUM you gotta' rough/degrease/epoxy your bases and action....or preferably buy a Stiller or Kelbly with fitted pins, or drill/mill fit some pins, THEN epoxy....and try yer dadgummedest to make thee 2 into 1.

And get a set of Kokopelli Alignment Bars


JUST DO IT!!!

Mounting a scope without Kokopelli's is like setting the tire pressure on your F1 car using a bicycle pump

And no pressure gage

so even if a professional smith, (like in my case GA Precisiion) put the base on,,, do you think it is sliding around causing accuracy issues? what if i have a spuhr mount on the base? i just hate spending a bunch of money and then finding out it is not doing it's job.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

what about a spuhr mount, i use that on almost everything. they are sort of one piece units, surely the ring portion is aligned?

Only way to know for sure is to check it with an alignment tool. Just the same as the only way to know if a scope holds zero perfectly is to check it with a scope tester against a known solid optic.

 

[alinwa]

so even if a professional smith, (like in my case GA Precisiion) put the base on,,, do you think it is sliding around causing accuracy issues? what if i have a spuhr mount on the base? i just hate spending a bunch of money and then finding out it is not doing it's job.

Most guns in the world..... you would never know.

For instance, when I first got a BR rifle I screwed 4 barrels off and on it at the range and out in the dogpatch (squeerrels actually) and shot little groups and was convinced that that's all you could ever need. I probably had 5000rds downrange before I started noticing "anomalies"....... and then the hunt started.

"Is it WIND??"

"Is it SEATING DEPTH?"

"Is it ME??"

"Is it TUNING?"

"Is it the BARREL?"

"Is it the SCOPE???"

And on and on and on.......

But it takes a hyper accurate setup to ever see any of these things. Scopes regularly wabble about to the tune of a tenth moa and never get caught. How many guns or guys can shoot 1/10moa?

And bases regularly slip about causing "2-grouping" less than a quarter inch apart, HOW MANY guys or guns???

And loose barrels will DEFINITELY make a gun "Two-Group" but sometimes it'll settle in for 30rds straight. And when one steps up to large chamberings the barrel looseness shows up worse but it's also much harder to shoot it. And when I say "loose barrels" I'm not just talking about hand-tight barrels, but typical rear-action-wrench tight on a magnum bf will also move.

And muzzle brakes. Muzzle brake threads get hit with an unloading force much larger than you could exert swinging a baseball bat, all while being violently whipped back and forth with enough force to BEND a rifle barrel 1/4" out of line. The acceleration curve which produces the recoil is 2 feet and 2 milliseconds long, the arresting acceleration curve (deceleration or braking) is 1-3 inches long and must halt the rearward momentum with only gas pressure...... it's violent.

Three normal procedures, #1 screw down the bases and mount the scope, #2 have a scope with just a wee tenth inch of variation and #3 'pop' the barrel down with a rear-entry wrench and stick a screwdriver thru the holes to tighten down the muzzle brake and you've likely got a quarter inch of variation built in.


So yeahhh, I glue everything except the barrel joint cuz guns that shoot larger than 1/4moa are boring. Even 338 hunting guns.

And I have glued a couple barrel joints..... and will be doing more testing in this area.