Moving On From Savage Bashing...What's So Great About Remington?

[JEFFPPC]

Went to match today that was limited to factory .223 bolt actions. 20 shots on IBS 100 yd score targets. One Tika the rest split between R and S. First and second place by Savage model 12s. Yep, me and my Rem where 5 points off the pace, kept up with x's but shy on points. In all seriousness, Savage offers rifles ready to compete, Remington makes rifles to shoot varmints with. Sad.......

 

[300_whisper]

The only thing savages are good for is to sell and use the money to buy a Remington.

 

[Kermit in Va.]

LOL

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I dont see too many striving to own or modify a savage. If there was there would be a better selection of triggers and stocks. I see people buy savages because they read about how good they shoot, mess around with them for a year or more (usually waiting on parts from a business nobody uses twice) then sell them at a loss. I have never seen a savage win anything past club level stuff or in some cases where winning means reading the flags more than equipment. They just make you pull your hair out for a while if you strive for better- some are perfectly fine with them the way they are.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Well, I use to be an "only Remington guy" but then I realized that Savages are winning factory classes a lot. Here in Pa where there are a lot of club matches with more than a few ex IBS shooters. Factory class is heavily Savage. Now, for you who think there is nothing but the IBS or the NSBRA, I have belonged to both, you need to get out of your little groups and come to Pa and shoot some club score and or groundhog matches. Many of you will get your eyes opened up at the level of competition. Especially the many IBS shooters who won't attend the very few 300 yd matches offered by that organization. I am sure I will get blasted but there is a big world beyond IBS and NSBRA. Yes, I am glad I started bench rest in IBS, it helped me lay a good foundation. But, its not the do all end all in competitive shooting. Dusty, I seldom disagree with you and look forward to your expertise, but you dead wrong on this one.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Well, I use to be an "only Remington guy" but then I realized that Savages are winning factory classes a lot. Here in Pa where there are a lot of club matches with more than a few ex IBS shooters. Factory class is heavily Savage. Now, for you who think there is nothing but the IBS or the NSBRA, I have belonged to both, you need to get out of your little groups and come to Pa and shoot some club score and or groundhog matches. Many of you will get your eyes opened up at the level of competition. Especially the many IBS shooters who won't attend the very few 300 yd matches offered by that organization. I am sure I will get blasted but there is a big world beyond IBS and NSBRA. Yes, I am glad I started bench rest in IBS, it helped me lay a good foundation. But, its not the do all end all in competitive shooting. Dusty, I seldom disagree with you and look forward to your expertise, but you dead wrong on this one.

No i dont disagree with you at all! It may seem that way and seem like i bash savages. Its not that way for sure. I can only shoot the one day matches at this point in my life so i see it a lot

 

[INTJ]

3 rings of steel....

That isn't really any advantage.

 

[INTJ]

Well, I use to be an "only Remington guy" but then I realized that Savages are winning factory classes a lot. Here in Pa where there are a lot of club matches with more than a few ex IBS shooters. Factory class is heavily Savage. Now, for you who think there is nothing but the IBS or the NSBRA, I have belonged to both, you need to get out of your little groups and come to Pa and shoot some club score and or groundhog matches. Many of you will get your eyes opened up at the level of competition. Especially the many IBS shooters who won't attend the very few 300 yd matches offered by that organization. I am sure I will get blasted but there is a big world beyond IBS and NSBRA. Yes, I am glad I started bench rest in IBS, it helped me lay a good foundation. But, its not the do all end all in competitive shooting. Dusty, I seldom disagree with you and look forward to your expertise, but you dead wrong on this one.

I would imagine the reason NBRSA and IBS competitors don't shoot many other type matches is because NBRSA and IBS take all of their available time. That's the case with me and why I don't shoot any local club matches at all. If it doesn't help me with my LR BR tune, I don't have time to mess with it.

And no, I don't shoot Savages but have often thought a budget build on a Savage dual port might be a good entry level class. If the stock wasn't so poorly designed for BR I'd say just use the Savage factory rifle in 6 BR.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Went to match today that was limited to factory .223 bolt actions. 20 shots on IBS 100 yd score targets. One Tika the rest split between R and S. First and second place by Savage model 12s. Yep, me and my Rem where 5 points off the pace, kept up with x's but shy on points. In all seriousness, Savage offers rifles ready to compete, Remington makes rifles to shoot varmints with. Sad.......

Jeff, do you think it’s all the floating bolt head that make the Savage’s win or is it a little better barrels than what Remington is putting out? This is assuming everything is really all factory.

 

[INTJ]

Pure accuracy is in the barrel. (This of course assumes proper bedding and no other weird issues like a bad chamber.) I have seen that dramatically illustrated. I am new to chambering barrels. Last year I made a rookie mistake and wound up with an oversize chamber, though it was true at the throat. That barrel has been my best shooting BR barrel. This year I did a great job on my chamber, and that barrel might shoot as well but not any better.

When we get to competition, pure accuracy becomes a significant advantage only in very good conditions. In average conditions the wind overwhelms small advantages in accuracy, and then--depending on the competition--we are left with wind reading skills or good luck as being the biggest factor.

At Least that is what I have seen..............

 

[sdean]

Usually good wind readers show up with very accurate and tuned rifles.

 

[billlarson]

That isn't really any advantage.

SAFETY....???

 

[JEFFPPC]

Jeff, do you think it’s all the floating bolt head that make the Savage’s win or is it a little better barrels than what Remington is putting out? This is assuming everything is really all factory.

I think more than barrel or action design or quality it's the style of rifles offered by Savage, stocks geared to match shooting, single shots, lighter triggers, heavier rifles etc. Over the last 20 yrs Savage has made a concereted effort to bring good accuraote entry level , shoot good out of the box rifles to us.I have seen none of that from Remington. Ever talk to a Remington rep at a show, I doubt if most of them know how to take a 700 bolt apart or know why stocks might need to be pillar bedded in certian cases. I had a Remington rep once tell me, when I inquired about sending a rifle back I wanted rebarreled with a factory barrel, to not send the bolt they would not need it. When Savage was really trying to get in the busieness, seems like Remington was trying to sell a few gunsp but not reaolly be involed in the business. How many 760 .223 pumps could Rem be selling if they had a brain.I was told again by a Rem rep, No one wants them except Turkey hunters in Pa and Tx. No longer a Rem fan here.

 

[jdh47]

Savage does have a huge following and it's not an accident. They have made an effort to give the shooter what he wants in a package that's engineered for mass production. That's how Remington stole the market from Winchester back in the day. That was back when Remington had people like Mike Walker and Jim Stekl competing. Remington's tin ear has knocked them down a few notches these days.
They still make a good action and it is the most copied with the most aftermarket support. As for winning matches; it depends on who shows up with what and is having a good day I think.

 

[300_whisper]

I can grow the nicest tomatoes with savage barrels

 

[Dgd6mm]

I can grow the nicest tomatoes with savage barrels

Not so without pictures.

 

[JFrank]

I dont see too many striving to own or modify a savage. If there was there would be a better selection of triggers and stocks. I see people buy savages because they read about how good they shoot, mess around with them for a year or more (usually waiting on parts from a business nobody uses twice) then sell them at a loss. I have never seen a savage win anything past club level stuff or in some cases where winning means reading the flags more than equipment. They just make you pull your hair out for a while if you strive for better- some are perfectly fine with them the way they are.

The one you built for Pops was a decent rifle, I thought so anyway.
It is tough to win against the custom action rifles if I do it’s typically just luck not skill

 

[jelenko]

As for winning matches; it depends on who shows up with what and is having a good day I think

This

 

[wbm]

How the coconut got there?

"It could be carried by an African swallow!"
"Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow, that's my point."
"Oh, yeah, I agree with that."
"But then of course African swallows are not migratory."
"Oh, yeah."

 

[jelenko]