Moving On From Savage Bashing...What's So Great About Remington?

[Phil3]

In all seriousness, I really would like to know the pros and cons of the Remington 700 design and performance. For instance, I think I heard their lock time is quite fast, but am not sure on that. What sets the Remington 700 apart from other designs?

This is NOT a question of the Remington being popular, having lots of aftermarket support, or it being the choice of military or police. These things can be due to many factors, which are outside the scope of my question. I am just looking at the Remington from a design and performance perspective. What might you say if you were performing a non-partisan evaluation of the Remington 700 action?

Phil

 

[ReedG]

I have no particular opinions on the M700 action. It is a piece of metal that, with pertinent modifications and care, can become a very proficient tool. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of parts and accessories available for it.

I think it gained its popularity at least partly due to its progeny (M722) being the only available push-feed bolt-action at the time Americans were taking benchrest shooting seriously. Most other bolt-actions (Sako, Winchester, Mauser) have features that are better than the M700 but none offer the "ring of steel", push feed and the tubular design that makes them easier to work on.

An industry has sprung up around modifying and accurizing the Remington action and only the recent crop of excellent custom actions have taken it out of the spotlight.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Remington 700 vs. Savage. (The two I have most experience with)

The Remington 700 is a simple and efficient design.

It has far less moving parts than a Savage. Look at how many parts the Remington bolt and trigger have vs. the Savage. When you have that many parts in a design, tolerances have to be worked into every piece to allow them to work, this is know as tolerance stacking. If you stack .001" tolerance into every part, you will have at least .010" in 10 parts.

Because of the simpler in line design of the Remington 700, locktime is faster.

If you ever get the chance, take a Savage bolt and trigger and set it next to a Remington 700 bolt and trigger, take them both apart. Don't bother taking the triggers apart, just remove them from the action. This will answer most of your questions.

One last thing, the Remington 700 has been the same action since 1962. Same foot print, same action hole spacing, same tenon size, same everything.
The reason for this is that they got it right from the get go, Savage keeps changing their actions trying to improve them, and in the process they have made it very complicated for consumers to keep up with them and also for aftermarket manufacturers to keep up with them.

 

[Erik Cortina]

One of the things that I find quirky about most bolt actions including the Remington 700 is that for most right handed right eye people it is poorly designed. It seems to me that if you're right handed the ejection/reloading port should be on the left side. It would make it a lot easier to insert a round in the chamber with minimal movement.

I think of the right bolt right port design as the qwerty design of the rifle world. Everyone keeps doing the same thing simply because that's the way it was done before. That includes me.

So, you want all the gases going in your eyes if there is a case failure?

How would you reload a right bolt left port in the field with no place to rest the rifle?

Ejecting brass into your face is probably not a good idea either.

 

[Phil3]

Erik,

I don't have a Remington to look at, but I like seeing different designs, and wish I had the chance to compare some (actions) side by side. In particular, I would like to understand the trigger design differences. I may just have to get a Remington one day to satisfy my curiosity.

Phil

 

[Phil3]

One of the things that I find quirky about most bolt actions including the Remington 700 is that for most right handed right eye people it is poorly designed. It seems to me that if you're right handed the ejection/reloading port should be on the left side. It would make it a lot easier to insert a round in the chamber with minimal movement.

I think of the right bolt right port design as the qwerty design of the rifle world. Everyone keeps doing the same thing simply because that's the way it was done before. That includes me.

So, you want all the gases going in your eyes if there is a case failure?

How would you reload a right bolt left port in the field with no place to rest the rifle?

Ejecting brass into your face is probably not a good idea either.

Can someone explain this to me? Are we talking about a case head separation, blown primer, or...? Seems to me if gases are escaping through the primer pocket, then my Howa with three holes in the bolt that point down into the mag well would be a plus. I don't know if the Remington has this. If a case head separate, that would seem to vent gases everywhere. If this is a problem, then dual port actions are equally vulnerable correct? I am picking up a left port action on Monday, and as far as ejection, I may remove the ejector and just fish out the spent case.

Phil

 

[aj300mag]

One of the things that I find quirky about most bolt actions including the Remington 700 is that for most right handed right eye people it is poorly designed. It seems to me that if you're right handed the ejection/reloading port should be on the left side. It would make it a lot easier to insert a round in the chamber with minimal movement.

I think of the right bolt right port design as the qwerty design of the rifle world. Everyone keeps doing the same thing simply because that's the way it was done before. That includes me.

The only time a right bolt/left port is beneficial is if you're speed shooting during a benchrest match. Way too much moving around if shooting prone.

 

[ShootDots]

I had a couple of Remington rifles I had bought over the years for hunting. Since I got into F-Open shooting, I have done very little hunting. I have more than sufficient quantities of hunting rifles, so I turned those Remingtons into F-Open rifles. I also have a few custom actions that are for F-Open too. Now to be T-totally honest, I can not find any difference in accuracy between the customs and the Remingtons, now that the Remingtons have all been squarred, trued etc.. They are, for all intents and purposes, just as good as any custom action. THAT IS WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT REMINGTONS... Since I already had the actions from previous rifle purchases, all I needed to do was "make them right".. If I had to buy a Remington action and make it right or buy a custom, I would buy the custom. However, if you can get a Remington action for a song and a dance and pay to make it right>>>DO IT! Besides, you have a veritable treasure trove of aftermarket stocks, triggers etc.. for Remington's that are readily available just about anywhere..

 

[CatShooter]

It's not that Remingtons are so good (though I have ~12 of them), it's that Savages are so baddd in comparison to everything else

 

[boltgunluvr]

Hey Phil......I'm not going to bash any rifle because all the manufacturers make great stuff. I do prefer the Rem 700 due to it's simplicity. I feel it's the "Glock" &/or "1911"...so to say...of bolt guns. I'm curious about the floating bolt head design of Savage. I wonder how much pressure it could really withstand. Anyone know for sure??? I want facts, not opinions! I have my reservations about that design. We all know the Rem 700 action is NOT the most smooth action. A Win 70 and Ruger 77 and Mauser are WAY smoother.

The pro side of Savage...I do appreciate the idea of being able to rebarrel without machining for head space. That's pretty nice.

 

[Phil3]

I think Savage uses the floating bolt head on all actions. ??? If so, they use it on a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 338 Lapua Mag, and 338 WinMag. Those are pretty hard hitting. But, am ASSUMING the floating bolt head is used on those calibers. If NOT used, that would call into question the strength of the design.

Phil

 

[Rem6br]

I think the difference between a rem 700 and a savage is like the difference
between a Nash rambler savage being the Nash and the 57' chevy being the 700. They both get the job done but parts are plentiful for 57' chevy and the Nash? Well try finding parts for a Nash rambler

Oh yea and savages are butt ugly

 

[Erik Cortina]

I think Savage uses the floating bolt head on all actions. ??? If so, they use it on a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 338 Lapua Mag, and 338 WinMag. Those are pretty hard hitting. But, am ASSUMING the floating bolt head is used on those calibers. If NOT used, that would call into question the strength of the design.

Phil

Phil, bigger cartridges do not have more pressure, they just shoot bigger bullets and hold more powder.

It's like a car tire and a tractor tire. A car tire usually hold 45 psi. while a tractor tire is about 20 to 30 PSI. Size does not determine pressure.

 

[GSPV]

The M700 is sweet. The clones are even sweeter. I've seen the Alpine, Atlas and Predator. Really like them all.

 

[Rem6br]

We all know the Rem 700 action is NOT the most smooth action. A Win 70 and Ruger 77 and Mauser are WAY smoother.


[/quote]

I can't speak for any other m77 Rugers but I bought a brand new one with stainless target gray finish
and it has more drag than a rusted tail pipe on a old ford pickup

 

[aj300mag]

I think Savage uses the floating bolt head on all actions. ??? If so, they use it on a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 338 Lapua Mag, and 338 WinMag. Those are pretty hard hitting. But, am ASSUMING the floating bolt head is used on those calibers. If NOT used, that would call into question the strength of the design.

Phil

Phil, bigger cartridges do not have more pressure, they just shoot bigger bullets and hold more powder.

It's like a car tire and a tractor tire. A car tire usually hold 45 psi. while a tractor tire is about 20 to 30 PSI. Size does not determine pressure.

Erik they may operate at the same pressure the larger cartridges will have a higher bolt thrust due to the larger surface area for the pressure to act on.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I think Savage uses the floating bolt head on all actions. ??? If so, they use it on a 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 338 Lapua Mag, and 338 WinMag. Those are pretty hard hitting. But, am ASSUMING the floating bolt head is used on those calibers. If NOT used, that would call into question the strength of the design.

Phil

Phil, bigger cartridges do not have more pressure, they just shoot bigger bullets and hold more powder.

It's like a car tire and a tractor tire. A car tire usually hold 45 psi. while a tractor tire is about 20 to 30 PSI. Size does not determine pressure.

Erik they may operate at the same pressure the larger cartridges will have a higher bolt thrust due to the larger surface area for the pressure to act on.

Possibly, but the brass also has more surface area to grip the chamber walls.

The point is, that the big mags and the smaller cartridges are not that much different on the stress that they apply to an action.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Precisely..... the point I didn't have time to type.......so why are some folks having some issues with the floating bolt faces? I'm not referring to the hear say stuff, I'm talking about the real world stuff.

 

[LHSmith]

Precisely..... the point I didn't have time to type.......so why are some folks having some issues with the floating bolt faces? I'm not referring to the hear say stuff, I'm talking about the real world stuff.

Just a WAG , but could it have something to do with the sheared retaining pin instances? Or perhaps all the extra parts, along with their fit to one another?

 

[ShootDots]

Look at what has happened to this topic. It has degenerated to the first topic of "Those who don't like Savages".. This topic should be blended into the other one... If it is "What's so good about a Remington" WHY continue to compare it to a Savage>>>Compare it to a B.A.T. or Panda or Stiller etc... That is really where Remington stacks up against, once they have been fully worked over..