Max accuracy in a223 ar

[Viperdoc]

I am seeking the holy grail of accuracy in a 223 AR, probably 0.2-0.3 range at 100 yards.Have a Krieger 1/9 barrel, custom no freebore reamer to load bullets at mag length into or close to lands. Want to use the gun for max accuracy PD shooting. Already have a Geissele trigger, NF scope-8-32,Lapua brass, neck turning all, Berger or Sierra bullets, Wolf SRM primers, weigh each charge, uniforming primer pockets, champfer necks and trim each load-

What else can I do to maximize my accuracy? Is this even a reasonable expectation?

 

[cmillard]

i have tried and tried to get my groups in my custom ar-15s down below 3/4 MOA for 10 shots at 100 yards but to no avail. even with all top of the line components, it is hard. i think a lot has to do with shot to shot consistency is hard to bring to managable levels

 

[seanhagerty]

I played with my AR loads and was able to get groups approaching .5" I tried going longer than mag length and didnt like single loading. I am not sure what the secret is, but I just finally assumed some of my problems may be the shooter, not the gun.

 

[Matt Pitchon]

Get Glen Zediker's book, 'The Competitive AR15 Builders Guide: How to Choose and Assemble All the Components to Construct Your Ultimate AR-15'.

In part of the book, Glen decides to figure out just how accurate an AR can be and builds the absolutely best AR he can. Glen builds that AR and it does shoot in the 2s. Its a lot of work, and Glen shows you how, but it can be done. Its amazing that a rifle based on a military design can deliver that kind of performance.

I have no affiliation to Glen or his book other than I read it and built a gun based on his ideas. Mine shoots less than 0.5" which is all I need.

 

[Viperdoc]

I have all of Zediker's books, which so far have been the best resource that I have found regarding AR's. However, are there any other good books someone can recommend?

Have built three AR's from parts based largely on his stuff, and they all shoot well. I do not recall anywhere in his books about claims of shooting 2's, except one brief line in his build of a 222 short course rifle.

Off a solid rest and feeding from a magazine I can generally get 0.5 with a variety of bullets in both my 7.7 and 9 twist Krieger barreled AR's, but want to see better. I am doing all of Zediker's ammo tricks, including neck turning, primer pocket uniforming, etc.

So, this is the holy grail of AR shooting for me, but not sure it is really attainable for a 223 on a consistent basis? Have a good barrel, scope (NF), solid rest with flat bottom hand guard, good trigger (Geissele), but perhaps at this point there's some trigger or hold techniques that I could be doing better, like tighter or looser grip, breathing, rate of trigger pulling, etc.

It does seem like the target is still waving around as I pull the trigger, even off a rest, and I'm sure this must have some limit on accuracy?

 

[Minesweeper3433]

You can call Mike Bryant. He built himself one that shoots pretty darn good.

 

[Larryh128]

You have all of the components that you need. There is no reason that it can't shoot that well. Les Baer guarantees 1/2" so you know that they're doing better than that. My stock RRA Predator Pursuit consistantly shoots under 1/2". After that it's pretty much the trigger puller. Go after it.

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

Viperdoc-

I've read almost all of Glen's books, and they were helpful. However, the book that was the "Bible" for me is "Black Magic, The Ultra Accurate AR-15" by John Feamster. Published by Precision Shooting in Mannchester, CN dated August 2000.

Feamster has built & tested a number of Ar-15's, and has explained steps to achieve accuracy with the rifle itself, and extensive testing of accurate loads & methods to get to an accurate load. He even has gone to so far as to compare powder dispensing, and progressive vs single stage presses. The results might surprise you.

I highly recommend that you get a copy of Feamster's book. It might also be interesting to compare Zeidekers and Feamsters thoughts on the Ar-15.

Bill

 

[Laurie]

My Southern Gun Co. SSR-15 (ambidextrous manually operated AR15 - we're not allowed semi-auto or pump-action centrefire rifles in the UK) regularly shot sub-0.5" groups when the heavy, fluted 26" Lilja 1-8" twist barrel was young. Even when old at 4,000 + rounds, it shot 0.5-0.7-MOA. This was with mildish 80gn SMK and Nosler Custom Comp bullet loads over Re15 and VarGet. The smallest regularly seen five-round groups were true quarter inchers, occasionally a 0.2" group showing up. Loads had to be mildish with no gas power to get primary extraction and start the bolt moving.

Bob Clark of SGC builds very fine ARs with a reputation for this sort of accuracy using a mixture of in-house manufactured components such as the receiver halves, carriers and bolts and other bits such as Krieger barrels and AR furniture bought-in from US suppliers.

I don't know how much the loss of gas operation affects accuracy one way or the other - it certainly sees the internal parts stay carbon free! My understanding is it doesn't offer any great benefits. I'm sure many people who frequent this forum such as Robert Whitley build equally accurate AR15s in the USA. The only downside I've found from the design is a tendency to string shots vertically that needs tuning out through load development.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[kjcpoint]

The JP Enterprise rifles and the Les baer AR's are fully capable of sub .5in groups.

I am trying all JP components and a broughton 12tw lite contour barrel and still trying to decide on which reamer to use. Still waiting for the barrel.

Kyle

 

[cmillard]

that level of accuracy may be attainable with 3 or 5 shot groups, but to test one's handloads and the capability of the rifle/shooter, try 10 shot groups.

 

[boltman223]

viperdoc

are you able to check the run out of your loaded rounds? I have noticed with my reloads that that has made a big difference. Just a thought, hope this helps.

 

[bumtownbutch]

I shoot both a RRA and DPMS Varmint AR-15. The RRA has a 24" barrel; while the DPMS has a 20" barrel. Both bullethole with 25.5gr. XBR8208, Fed 205, 50 gr. Sierra BlitzKing seated to COL 2.258". Buddies have also shot this load, and 5 AR-15 are all shooting sub-MOA.

 

[Larryh128]

3-5 shot groups? Man , we have high cap magazines. Honestly, they are boring at 100-200 yds. 20 rounds in 1 ragged hole. ;D Barrel, trigger, tight tolerance between upper & lower, & a good handload that isn't being hot rodded are the keys. What's not to love.

 

[Viperdoc]

There's a big difference between one moa and 0.3, and a big difference between three and five shot groups, and ten even better.

However, for ladders I've been trying five at the first load (two foulers), and then four at each ladder step, with 0.3 gr between steps. Still makes a lot of testing.

Still trying to find the combo for 0.2-0.3 consistent five shot groups at 100 ydsj out of an AR.

I think Les Bair does three shot groups but not 5?

 

[dan06]

I didn't see free floated hand guard on your list........It should be. I have had 3 different bushmaster heavy barrel guns that would all shoot good honest consistant 5 shot .5" groups at 100 yards. They are not even custom guns. The one I kept likes to have a little more OAL that the standard mag allows so I have cut out the front of a 20 rounder to be able to seat bullets out farther. I know some smiths true up the action much the same way that they do a bolt gun before they start they say that also helps. A forearm that rides the bag well. Really nice optics... The best trigger that money can buy.

I am guessing that after you get down much under .5 MOA it goes back to how well you reload and taylor your ammo, much the same as with any rifle. You seldom see AR owners that load ammo for their rifles useing the same tehniques as the bench rest shooters do. I think you have to do that to get down in the .2's and .3's consistantly.

 

[Larryh128]

You're right, should have been, but at this accuracy level I just consider a free float forearm as already there.

 

[Viperdoc]

Free float forearm on flat bottomed bench rider, NF 8-32 scope, Krieger 1/9 bbl, geissele match trigger.

Lapua brass, neck turned. Primer pockets uniformed, chamfered and trimmed, Wolf SRM primers, sierra or Berger bullets. Now trying 8082, but have TAC, 4895, h335, 2520, Varget, and others. Runout typically 0.002. Neck tension around 0.004. All loaded to mag length.

Did order another Krieger bbl and a ptg reamer (Wylde with zero free bore), but that's another story.

 

[AdamJ]

I have had good results with 50 gr vmax and 27.5 bl-c2 in one ar varmint rig .5 moa with 4.3 SDs. In another varmint AR the same bulllet and 25.5 gr H4895 resulted in one 5 shot group measuring .109", normally gun shots in the hi .3s-lo .4s. Lower is bushy with JP trigger and hammer. Uppers are 20" DPMS varmint and the other is a 16"dpms varmint (small group shooter). Both uppers were ordered from Midway. Sniperhide has a tutorial on accurately shooting the AR platform.

 

[dan06]

One other thing....make sure that your mag of choice feeds straight into the chamber....you do not one that just works all the time. You need one that the round doesn't get any damage when it feeds. There is a difference. So far I have been able to find one or two out of the assortment I have on hand with out modifications. That loaded round snaps into the chamber with some authority....you do not want your mag-action to affect runout during normal cycle.