Marks on primers from seating

[Fire Dog]

I am betting you have some shaved off brass in your seater stem edge?
Clean the seater stem and back off pressure or
Are you using the proper seater stem? There should be one for lg rifle,lg pistol and one for sm rifle,pistol

Looks like you are using the small and rotating case and pressing @4-5x? With too much pressure

^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly

 

[jwv2001]

Why would you do that in the 1st place? A cure for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[jwv2001]

Why are you reseating? Forget the numbers. Just seat them until you feel them bottom out. Dont overthink this. Thats when problems are created.

Overthinking simple processes seems the source of many problems on this forum. All that is required for a good powder burn is ignition and pressure. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

[AlNyhus]

If the primer pockets haven't been uniformed to remove the radius where the sides meet the bottom, the primer sides will try to fold around the radius. This can hold the anvil off the floor of the pocket and cause ignition issues...everything from erratic ignition to misfires. It can be a fake out because it feels like you're using adequate pressure...but the pressure is the primer sides rolling inward and not the anvil seating.

Uniform the pockets and use a seater that lets you feel the anvil seating. Forget any sort of depth measurement lash up.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

 

[danny]

If the primer pockets haven't been uniformed to remove the radius where the sides meet the bottom, the primer sides will try to fold around the radius. This can hold the anvil off the floor of the pocket and cause ignition issues...everything from erratic ignition to misfires. It can be a fake out because it feels like you're using adequate pressure...but the pressure is the primer sides rolling inward and not the anvil seating.

Uniform the pockets and use a seater that lets you feel the anvil seating. Forget any sort of depth measurement lash up.

Good shootin' -Al

And, no matter what you or I say, there are going to be masses of users here that will continue to get all gadgetry infatuated and will insist on playing with their depth below flush settings rather than just seating by feel and making sure, via primer pocket uniformers that the primer is below flush, in spec., somewhere. Some of those might get lucky and bottom just the right amount. Many, in their quest for "the number" will end up with primers not seated deep enough, or crushed in too deep.

Danny

 

[6BRA]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

Alex , what about inconsistent depth. Say .119 to .121? This raises the primer in relation to case head. Although measured in microseconds in lock time. I'm assuming from your previous comment that neither depth or curl have changed your opinions. Or are you sorting ?
Mike

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex , what about inconsistent depth. Say .119 to .121? This raises the primer in relation to case head. Although measured in microseconds in lock time. I'm assuming from your previous comment that neither depth or curl have changed your opinions. Or are you sorting ?
Mike

I will give you an example. The last matches I shot at DC before moving was with my blue gun. During tuning with 3 shot groups at 1k, I never left the range without shooting a zero or a one. Or sometimes multiple zeros and ones. Of course there were bigger groups, but I never went home with a best in the 2s. It was one of the best rifles I owned. The first match I shot, it went back to back, 1.5 and 1.6. We dont track the individual match aggs for records but I think second best is high 2s or so. So to say that gun shot was an understatement. That lot of primers had a height variation of .008". I didnt sort them, I didnt uniform or clean the pockets, I just bottomed them out. I worried about the tune.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

Thanks...
This old Guy is better now. Dump the Pop Corn, Range Time.

 

[Shooter13]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

Before I "learned" I needed to fix the primer pockets and clean them I shot better, now that I KNOW I'm supposed to do the extra work I haven't shot as well, guess it's time to unlearn some things!!!

 

[AlNyhus]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

Alex, I have to tell on myself, a bit. Forever, I've not uniformed primer pockets until after the first firing as I believe the pocket takes a 'seat' that first hit. Then I just run a carbide uniformer in and use that to clean the pockets after. I made some new brass last season (30BR Lapua) and for some reason, never uniformed after that first firing. I seat with an old Lee round primer seater and the primers felt fine. Out of the blue, I started having an occasional misfire with Fed205M's, which I've used forever. I changed primer lots with no luck. Tossed in some WSR's and had the same issue intermittently. I finally noticed that the face of my uniformer wasn't flat against the case head when cleaning the pockets....light bulb goes on albeit dimly.

I power uniformed the pockets and took a bunch out of the radius. Primers now had that old familiar bit if 'squish' when the anvil preloaded. No more FTF's.

When I made some new Lapua 30BR brass for this season (new barrel), I uniformed as part of the case prep. I was surprised how much radius there was in there.

Maybe brass dependent???

Anyway, I agree that we agree. Reminds me of the Dave Mason song but in reverse.

As always, good shootin' -Al

 

[6BRA]

Alex, I have to tell on myself, a bit. Forever, I've not uniformed primer pockets until after the first firing as I believe the pocket takes a 'seat' that first hit. Then I just run a carbide uniformer in and use that to clean the pockets after. I made some new brass last season (30BR Lapua) and for some reason, never uniformed after that first firing. I seat with an old Lee round primer seater and the primers felt fine. Out of the blue, I started having an occasional misfire with Fed205M's, which I've used forever. I changed primer lots with no luck. Tossed in some WSR's and had the same issue intermittently. I finally noticed that the face of my uniformer wasn't flat against the case head when cleaning the pockets....light bulb goes on albeit dimly.

I power uniformed the pockets and took a bunch out of the radius. Primers now had that old familiar bit if 'squish' when the anvil preloaded. No more FTF's.

When I made some new Lapua 30BR brass for this season (new barrel), I uniformed as part of the case prep. I was surprised how much radius there was in there.

Maybe brass dependent???

Anyway, I agree that we agree. Reminds me of the Dave Mason song but in reverse.

As always, good shootin' -Al

Great song!
I've seen the bottom of the pockets push out after 2 to 3 firings as well. Not talking about loose pockets. Talking about the brass taking its set....so to speak. Uniformer in and boom fresh brass removed from bottom. Shows up around perimeter 1st.

 

[6BRA]

I am going to throw this out there. John Hoover's products just work. His customer service is Great!

Precision Primer Gauge

The Precision Primer Gauge takes precision measurements of primer pocket depth and the depth of seated primers in relationship to the face of the case head.

bullettipping.com

 

[Rem06]

Al, I think you and I agree on almost everything. In this case I will give you some of my experiences. I uniformed pockets forever, just because. Until I got lazy one year. That year I also decided to test this primer seating depth stuff. I had a real good gun, in good conditions I would expect 3 shot groups to be in the 1s at 1k often enough. Before I started the primer testing I uniformed the pockets to make sure the test would have less variables. During testing and even after going back to seating by feel that rifle never shot a 1 again. Sharing this with some of my friends at Deep Creek many of us decided to try not uniforming pockets. This was maybe 4 years ago? Well none of have gone back and some personal best have been had. Somewhat anecdotal but most of this stuff is results based. I know I will never uniform a pocket again. I actually think that little crimp at the bottom may be a good thing. We also stopped cleaning the pockets too, lol. I stopped cleaning the hunting gun stuff and the accuracy was so good I stopped in the bench guns and saw nothing fall off. What can I say?

I know i will never uniform a pocket again

Very well said!!! I learned that loooong ago.

I too will NEVER uniform a primer pocket again. Now to grab the popcorn and listen to the Bla Bla Bla lol. Nor, will i boil bath venison.
I'll stick to a pressure cooker

 

[danny]

I know i will never uniform a pocket again

Very well said!!! I learned that loooong ago.

I too will NEVER uniform a primer pocket again. Now to grab the popcorn and listen to the Bla Bla Bla lol. Nor, will i boil bath venison.
I'll stick to a pressure cooker

Pressure cooker????

There are some words that are ALWAYS found together
Some examples are:
A) Liquor store and robbed
B) Pressure Cooker and explode

My wife is German, born in Germany. She cooks with a pressure cooker in the USA, always had while in Germany, as does her mother, all of her relatives and friends. None of them has ever experienced a pressure cooker explode, nor have they ever heard of that. This is a phenomenon that only happens to Americans. Scenario B, those words only automatically go together for Americans.

And, I'm NOT "just saying".

Danny

 

[danny]

Great song!
I've seen the bottom of the pockets push out after 2 to 3 firings as well. Not talking about loose pockets. Talking about the brass taking its set....so to speak. Uniformer in and boom fresh brass removed from bottom. Shows up around perimeter 1st.

That's my experience. Nearly every time on every case I ever load, I am removing brass from the bottom of the pocket. I suppose if one doesn't want to do that, they'd darn well better hope that they don't run out of room to be able to seat them flush, or just below, OR they can just crush them below flush if one is so inclined. There are those brand new, unfired cases that my uniformer has removed brass from the primer pocket bottom.

Danny

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I know i will never uniform a pocket again

Very well said!!! I learned that loooong ago.

I too will NEVER uniform a primer pocket again. Now to grab the popcorn and listen to the Bla Bla Bla lol. Nor, will i boil bath venison.
I'll stick to a pressure cooker

Thats also because I dont enjoy reloading anymore. Im not saying that uniforming is a bad thing if you want to do it. And in some cases like Al's I guess it can fix a problem. The last ppc I chambered for the tack driver gun, I even did a no turn!

 

[AlNyhus]

Thats also because I dont enjoy reloading anymore. Im not saying that uniforming is a bad thing if you want to do it. And in some cases like Al's I guess it can fix a problem. The last ppc I chambered for the tack driver gun, I even did a no turn!

Alex, nobody was more surprised than me when that 'fixed' the issue.

 

[Tommie]

And, no matter what you or I say, there are going to be masses of users here that will continue to get all gadgetry infatuated and will insist on playing with their depth below flush settings rather than just seating by feel and making sure, via primer pocket uniformers that the primer is below flush, in spec., somewhere. Some of those might get lucky and bottom just the right amount. Many, in their quest for "the number" will end up with primers not seated deep enough, or crushed in too deep.

Danny

Equipment prep is a thing to focus on as well as being the easiest set of variables to control. We’re an equipment-centric gang (for the most part) so concentrating on stuff is a convenient distraction from the elephant in the room: skill.

 

[jwv2001]

.......so concentrating on stuff is a convenient distraction from the elephant in the room: skill.

What I've found in my life, is that with alot of these panacea cures to whatever problem that arises, rely heavily on the placebo effect. In that, if you believe it works, it does. The problem with that mindset is that sooner or later the problem appears again.