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Marketing help/advice - NOTE: READ ENTIRE THREAD B4 POSTING COMMENTS!

Re: Marketing help/advice

wwbrown said:
Sonofagun,

You have posted your reloading bench on at least two forums over a period of at least 12 years and it does not look like many, if any, reloaders have expressed even mild excitement about your product idea. Your original post asked for marketing advice and I think you have gotten just that, the advice was not what you wanted to hear so you got defensive. If you are so sure your realization of the most magnificent reloading bench will sell in the numbers you think put your money down and do it. Put your product on the market and when you have reached the great heights of commercial success that you claim you can rub that in all of those who doubted you and your idea had great commercial merit.

This is true and what I intend to do. I've responded and answered all the negative comments here, but no one seems to want to listen - seems they'd rather just try to tell me whats so bad about the design and believe me if I thought their criticisms were valid I would immediately set about to correct the shortcomings in the design. For example they say it needs bracing otherwise it will wobble - sorry it doesn't (but they failed to pay attention when I said the end user could add some if they want) and it won't. I was planning to take a picture with 3-4 people standing on it and I will do so if that will help them understand - but i think it already too late now. No one would dare now say anything good about the design because they wouldn't be going along with the "gang" mentality here and/or would contradict themselves.

Henri Ford was probably asked what we needed that crazy, smelly, noisy contraption he came up with when the horse & buggy they had worked just fine.

Oh wow, now everyone will jump all over that comment - that's what gangs and bullies do.

Oh and please note - Butch STILL won't say what it was that originally I (supposedly)
did to piss him off. He just seems to take some sadistic pleasure in dissing me every chance he gets. Come on Lambert - fess up. Otherwise obviously, I did nothing.

Watch, he won't, because I really did nothing other than argue what I sincerely thought was a valid idea and down (very) deep he knows I was right.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

sonofagun231 said:
wwbrown said:
Sonofagun,

You have posted your reloading bench on at least two forums over a period of at least 12 years and it does not look like many, if any, reloaders have expressed even mild excitement about your product idea. Your original post asked for marketing advice and I think you have gotten just that, the advice was not what you wanted to hear so you got defensive. If you are so sure your realization of the most magnificent reloading bench will sell in the numbers you think put your money down and do it. Put your product on the market and when you have reached the great heights of commercial success that you claim you can rub that in all of those who doubted you and your idea had great commercial merit.

This is true and what I intend to do. I've responded and answered all the negative comments here, but no one seems to want to listen - seems they'd rather just try to tell me whats so bad about the design and believe me if I thought their criticisms were valid I would immediately set about to correct the shortcomings in the design. For example they say it needs bracing otherwise it will wobble - sorry it doesn't (but they failed to pay attention when I said the end user could add some if they want) and it won't. I was planning to take a picture with 3-4 people standing on it and I will do so if that will help them understand - but i think it already too late now. No one would dare now say anything good about the design because they wouldn't be going along with the "gang" mentality here and/or would contradict themselves.

I will do something about those AWFUL, terrible, crazy, totally unnecessary bolt heads which take up a whopping 1% of the work surface and so would make reloading operations totally impossible! ::)

Henri Ford was probably asked what we needed that crazy, smelly, noisy contraption he came up with when the horse & buggy they had worked just fine.

Oh wow, now everyone will jump all over that comment - that's what gangs and bullies do.

Oh and please note - Butch STILL won't say what it was that originally I (supposedly)
did to piss him off. He just seems to take some sadistic pleasure in dissing me every chance he gets. Come on Lambert - fess up. Otherwise obviously, I did nothing.

Watch, he won't, because I really did nothing other than argue what I sincerely thought was a valid idea and down (very) deep he knows I was right.

You don't make the market listen to you, you offer a value proposition that meets the needs of consumers, alleviate the pains they have and offer features that provide gains for them. You clearly have not. You can't keep defending what the consumers say are shortcomings, you have to prove your claims or offer a revision for them to buy into. Honestly, you cannot compare yourself to Henry Ford here - two different planets)
Whether you like the feedback you received or not, you have been helped. Sometimes it's just not what you want to hear. Additionally, why would everyone else want to see you drag a respected member of the forum into a pissing match while you try to position an idea to bring to market. You have alienated the masses, not the other way around. Failing often is ok if you fail smart - most are not seeing 15 years of hard work here.
As always, best of luck.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

May I suggest a few items that may help after reading this thread for some time now?

1. Post up pictures with 3-4 men standing on it as you had stated. (or however many you deem necessary)
2. It might be a good idea to send one of your benches to an impartial reloader and they can post an honest review here.
3. I would be interested in seeing a 3-4 minute video of somone trying the bench out/putting it through it's paces. Have someone video while someone leans on it, while someone full length sizes some brass (does the bench lift/shake/move during this process), and finally video while someone pushes it side to side.

Hope this helps. If I were to make claims of something I built, I would be prepared to offer evidence to back up my claims.

Pulpit
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Benches I would consider to flimsy for me but better then what I saw on this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7aZH5T2DY



http://www.lowes.com/pd_538510-55738-3DSSWM2013_4294857655__?productId=50109238&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=


Ray
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

I bought one bench when I got a mini wood lathe, I hated putting that thing together! I thought the hole time the things was a waste of effort for how flimsy it is. I do think your bench would be much easier to assemble and less of a headache in that regard. Maybe you could use quick pins and design it to be packable and portable?

My Mini lathe bench:




Ray
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Pulpit said:
May I suggest a few items that may help after reading this thread for some time now?

1. Post up pictures with 3-4 men standing on it as you had stated. (or however many you deem necessary)
2. It might be a good idea to send one of your benches to an impartial reloader and they can post an honest review here.
3. I would be interested in seeing a 3-4 minute video of somone trying the bench out/putting it through it's paces. Have someone video while someone leans on it, while someone full length sizes some brass (does the bench lift/shake/move during this process), and finally video while someone pushes it side to side.

Hope this helps. If I were to make claims of something I built, I would be prepared to offer evidence to back up my claims.

Pulpit

1. Not a problem - the bench can support 1000 lbs without any problem.

2. I have reloaded various calibers over many years and so already know the bench is suitable - once marketed feedback will come in about it from end users. Remember it is not JUST for use as a reloading bench. I might be hard pressed finding an IMPARTIAL reloader if some of the comments here are typical!

3. The bench is quite sturdy as it is and again (sigh, seem to have to keep repeating what I've said before) BOTH bracing can be added (if needed) PLUS it can easily be fastened into wall studs which would gives it absolutely MAXIMUM strength equal too (or more than) any other bench currently available. Some probably aren't so designed for being fastened to wall studs.

Thanks for a constructive post.

Now @ raythemanroe - thanks for the picture and link - I was able to view more benches which provide input to design parameters for a bench although I really didn't see anything I haven't already seen. The bench shown functionally does not differ from my design - it is a work surface with one (mine offers 3 or more) shelves above and nothing more. Probably costs MUCH more and is both more complex to assemble and costly to produce and package/ship. Again, it has to include bracing as the basic bench needs them to be usably sturdy - mine doesn't have that problem for the reasons previously posted (if anyone has bothered to read them!).

Yes, my bench is very simple to assemble and will include EXCELLENT/CLEAR assembly information (as all the kit furniture I have designed has had) - simple IS better! It is already designed to be portable (portable shooting/reloading bench) - legs can easily be removed and reattached anytime.

I wasn't talking about Ford inventing the wheel - but the automobile.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Dave Berg said:
Your title was Marketing Help/Advice and apparently the "help" includes startup funds. I suggest you look at sites such as Kickstarter.com where you describe your offering and it's benefits and invite "angels" to put up funds. You determine what you need to get started and you put together the info to "sell" your product to potential investors just as you would to a customer. It's a simple way to raise money for a viable product and if you don't lure enough investors you probably won't succeed in the marketplace either. There are currently four "bench" projects active on Kickstarter alone but nothing that's really similar.

I've looked into such - they're really not that simple UNLESS you're ready to spend a LOT of time, effort, and even $$ to promote, advertise, link, contact friends (I don't apparently have many here), OR hire a firm to do what you need to promote your idea/product. Too bad it isn't that simple, but such is the complexity (often hidden to a casual viewer) of so many internet sites that seem to offer easy answers.

Lots of "talk" about helping small businesses or creating jobs but seems that's all it mostly is - just "talk" - advice, seminars/programs costing YOU time & money, fee based consultants, entrepreneur groups...who just like to TALK, etc., etc. ad nauseum.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Good deal, I look forward to the pics and video showing the stability of your system.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Some "ideas" for you...Adjustable height (not everyone sits in a chair), Thicker 2" minimum thickness top ( 1" top will not hold up over time)with steel backing plates for press mounts (pre-drilled), Top MUST be 100% flat (NO GAPS OR RIDGES). Bottom braces (also doubles as a footrest for those of us that use stools rather than chairs), Electric outlet for scale or light. Floor plates or brackets (to fasten legs to floor). You can build a 10' bench with all these features for about $110. If YOU purchase in larger quantity I'm sure that cost would be considerably less.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

And after 20 years in the making, you have yet to convince anyone to invest in your product ???
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Nix the idea of using hardwoods or you stand the chance of getting raided by the Feds (USFWS) like Gibson and the other guitar manufacturers.
What species is the legs and top?......where's the pic you deleted?
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

sonofagun231 said:
Dave: I have a 4 page business plan outline and am quite busy having another product which is in demand*. Am getting interest from local investors/potential partners that can see my business's potential and also some local outfits to produce the parts** - waiting on quote for the shipping carton from local box maker (I can make these in-house to cut costs if necessary). Will have a website, SEO, etc. and will look (or have looked) into utilizing the marketers you have mentioned and others. After being basically a 1-2 man operation many years am poised to move to the next level and start providing local jobs.

*Due to it being the BEST available.

**BTW, they are experienced cabinet/furniture/table builders and don't see any major faults with my design like many of the critics here seem to.
This is really great news and on a very appropriate day too ! Are these going to be " SHOVEL READY " job's?
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

JRS said:
And after 20 years in the making, you have yet to convince anyone to invest in your product ???

Still firing blanks huh? I haven't been looking for an investor for 20 years - only just lately - I do have several possible partners and a meeting with one scheduled for next week. Takes time - people are terribly cautious these days.

But BTW, an investor is not absolutely necessary - it just could make things a bit easier and speed things up.

Quote: "What other high demand product do you produce?*

*That is the best available"

Is a product unrelated to reloading or shooting. There's plenty of demand out there for good products - you just have to find a "niche" and then fill it.

@ LHSmith - all domestic wood and made in USA (not a certain oriental country). Picture removed to protect the idea from copycats.

I really grow tired of wasting time answering so many questions and making this thread any longer - serious inquiries or good questions, PM me.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Why don't you package up a few of those rickety tables, and send them to a few reputable individuals for evaluation. The Forum Boss and German Salazar come to mind immediately. That would give you the opportunity to have your "best available" on the daily bulletin. It's the best way to introduce your product.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

JRS said:
Why don't you package up a few of those rickety tables, and send them to a few reputable individuals for evaluation. The Forum Boss and German Salazar come to mind immediately. That would give you the opportunity to have your "best available" on the daily bulletin. It's the best way to introduce your product.

OK but I can't send it to them unless they want to evaluate one so why don't you convince them to do so?

Nice blank: "rickety" - you guys are unreally stupid.
 
Re: Marketing help/advice

Just looking, back I have a few questions:

sonofagun231 said:
I have a new shooting/reloading related product to bring to market - it has a huge potential* so I'm looking for marketing help, advice, or interest. Yes, I know I could advertise it here or on some other on-line forums and sites, but this truly has a [b]huge[/b] potential, so I think it warrants truly comprehensive, professional marketing. If I find the right person or outfit, a cut of the business is certainly offered.

*outside of the shooting/reloading market as well

sonofagun231 said:
Still am looking. Overall potential is enormous.




Just to gain a little perspective here:
What do you consider a huge/enormous potential? What volume(s) do you consider high demand?


sonofagun231 said:
Both actually, but it shouldn't take much effort in either to get this thing rolling like a snowball down a hill. It will instantly generate positive cash flow as it will start selling the minute it is advertised (@ $150-175 per unit). It will lead to a family of similar products that will have an even wider market.

One big concern is I better be setup to produce in quantity to keep up with the demand. Thankfully, the production equipment and facility requirements needed to produce are actually quite simple - couple thousand sq. feet of shop space and a couple thousand $ in equipment.

What sources are you using to show there is a "high demand" for reloading benches, work/hobby tables, etc., and what is reflected in your business plan in regards to market segmentation and share percentages? (potential)

It still seems like you believe this is going to be a "winner" even after getting market feedback from targeted customers? What other forums or places are you getting market entry feedback from?
 

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