Making Bullets

[Webster]

I'm thinking about trying my hand at making some bullets (not commercially) - any tips from guys who've been around that block?

These are all light weight 6mm bullets. Some of these bullet makets make a small number of bullets and only to a few top level competitors.

I'm interested in long range boat tail type designs, starting with .30 caliber.

What are the pros and cons of the various die makers out there? Best source for jackets & lead?

I've been browsing the web a bit, but it seems like this stuff gets out of date quickly in terms of who's making what and where to get it. What's the current state of things?

 

[r1200mike]

Stay away from Dave corbins equipment. Not that it is bad but you will not make a bullet like you can in a carbide die. The steel dies wont allow you to close the meplat like a Carbide die will. I have several die sets from Ulrich. And I have some steel dies from Corbin, they get used on occasion, but not too often. Get some jackets from Sierra or Bart. cores from Charlie and have fun. I still make cores for my .30 and it will wear you out. If you want just a few to test let me know, I have .22,.243,.264 and .30 jackets. most all lengths. Mike

 

[dcali]

Stay away from Dave corbins equipment. Not that it is bad but you will not make a bullet like you can in a carbide die. The steel dies wont allow you to close the meplat like a Carbide die will. I have several die sets from Ulrich. And I have some steel dies from Corbin, they get used on occasion, but not too often. Get some jackets from Sierra or Bart. cores from Charlie and have fun. I still make cores for my .30 and it will wear you out. If you want just a few to test let me know, I have .22,.243,.264 and .30 jackets. most all lengths. Mike

Is there something about carbide that allows for better forming or is that a design difference between Ulrich and Corbin dies? My initial research is steering me away from Corbin, who seems to be selling more of a "business in a box" system. If I need carbide to do this right, i might have to rethink some of my ideas.

 

[people]

The trouble is that good web pages cost $$$, especially e-commerce sites. Nightforce can afford it (and honestly, they're far from the worst offenders). But a lot of the one man shops really have no need as they're at full capacity as it is. Although they could probably spend a lot less time on the phone answering questions if they put some effort into some decent sites.

That is very true. I have helped many decide what they want. You know as well as I do if they would draw out what they want it would help them decide what they need and make the process go so much faster.

 

[liseo]

Hi Damoncali.


Sent you a PM

 

[RGRobinett]

Hi Damoncali.


Sent you a PM

Me too. RG

 

[Webster]

It's my understanding that George Ulrich only makes carbide dies? What about steel? I'm purely looking at low production, and I'm reading that carbide is much more expensive, although more cost effective at high volume.

Too many abbreviations. It's extremely unlikely the dies are made from tungsten carbide. They must be tungsten carbide coated? TiC is used only because it’s very hard. I don’t know why it would have any advantage over steel dies except it would have less wear after a lot of usage.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Too many abbreviations. It's extremely unlikely the dies are made from tungsten carbide. They must be tungsten carbide coated? TiC is used only because it’s very hard. I don’t know why it would have any advantage over steel dies except it would have less wear after a lot of usage.

The dies are solid tungsten carbide. The chemical symbol for tungsten is W. Ti is titanium.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Most bullet making dies have carbide inserts in a steel die body for the "point-up" die.

 

[Webster]

The dies are solid tungsten carbide. The chemical symbol for tungsten is W. Ti is titanium.

Sorry about the abbrev. should have known better. Old age is creeping in. Got confused with TiC. I have some experience with powder metallurgy. I believe the only way to make a solid WC die is from powdered metal. It's compressed in a die then sintered. Then the only way to finish the dimensions is by grinding. Very expensive and not necessary. You only need a hard surface treatment. The rest of the die really doesn't do anything except it's a surface for dimensions. The interior does not have to be hard.

 

[butchlambert]

Sorry about the abbrev. should have known better. Old age is creeping in. Got confused with TiC. I have some experience with powder metallurgy. I believe the only way to make a solid WC die is from powdered metal. It's compressed in a die then sintered. Then the only way to finish the dimensions is by grinding. Very expensive and not necessary. You only need a hard surface treatment. The rest of the die really doesn't do anything except it's a surface for dimensions. The interior does not have to be hard.

I believe you will find that they are burnt with EDM.

 

[Webster]

I believe you will find that they are burnt with EDM.

I did quality control. I didn't go out in the shop very much. It's been 25 years since I worked in that facility. It may be possible to cut WC with ceramic type cutting tools? Are you sure the entire die is WC? W is very expensive and EDM is also time consuming and expensive. One EDM machine cost a lot of bucks let alone a bunch of them. EDM is a slow process to remove metal. I still contend only the working surface needs to be hard. A hard interior achieves nothing. I used to send 6" diameter gears out to have a tooth EDM removed for inspection. It cost about $250 to remove one gear tooth. I also worked a plant where we EDM rough machined 3' long turbine blades for aircraft engines.

 

[STS]

The dies are made with a carbide slug that is EDM'ed then pressed into a steel body. The final lapping to size is done after pressing into the body.

 

[Webster]

The dies are made with a carbide slug that is EDM'ed then pressed into a steel body. The final lapping to size is done after pressing into the body.

Thanks for the good info. One person got it correct.

 

[butchlambert]

Thanks for the good info. One person got it correct.

I get it, I disagreed and that means the other person is correct. If the surface only has to be hard, couldn't they just do Melonite or run them through Titanium Nitried? The carbide insert is used because it ain't easy to thread the OD. Plunge and wire EDM are different. I made many many graphite electrodes for plunge EDM.
George, where are you?
This is my custom trigger that I did for the 452 CZ. It is wire EDM

This is the bolt release that I made for my L46 Sako.

 

[Webster]

I get it, I disagreed and that means the other person is correct. If the surface only has to be hard, couldn't they just do Melonite or run them through Titanium Nitried? The carbide insert is used because it ain't easy to thread the OD. Plunge and wire EDM are different. I made many many graphite electrodes for plunge EDM.
George, where are you?
This is my custom trigger that I did for the 452 CZ. It is wire EDM

This is the bolt release that I made for my L46 Sako.

Beautiful looking parts. Melonite is done above 580C and it would take over an hour. Never did Melonite myself but you have to diffuse carbon or nitrogen into the steel. Expensive for small batches and you can get warpage. TiN is a vapor or sputtered coating and can be applied at quick and at low temperatures.

 

[butchlambert]

Beautiful looking parts. Melonite is done above 580C and it would take over an hour. Never did Melonite myself but you have to diffuse carbon or nitrogen into the steel. Expensive for small batches and you can get warpage. TiN is a vapor or sputtered coating and can be applied at quick and at low temperatures.

Webster, I have had a lot of things Melonite QPQ treated, bolts, receivers, barrels and dies. Temp of Melonite QPQ is not an issue with steel bullet dies.
Gone to hospital to get my cataract surgery, be back tomorrow evening.

 

[r1200mike]

I believe you will find that they are burnt with EDM.

Some are made using EDM, some are not.

 

[butchlambert]

Some are made using EDM, some are not.

What about the "are nots".

 

[r1200mike]

What about the "are nots".[/QUOT

I have a set of .30 cal dies from David Deutsch that I believe were made by EDM. But the dies that were made by G.Ulrich are ground which Is what I was told. Now I am not a machinist or claim to be one so I am just repeating what I was told. Mike