Long range load development at 100 yards.

[glockaholic]

EDIT: I know why this one doesn't look right. When seating the bullets I added instead of subtracting the jump. All of these are different amounts of jam. .... oh well ..... I'm sure I'm not the first to do this. .....Carl
____________________________________________________________________________________

I tested the seating depth this morning. I'm not 100% satisfied because most ES were around 17 and one 24. Not as good as last round. I used 40.5 gn as suggested. I did break procedure and shoot at 300 yd since the wind was nice in the AM at Bayou Rifles.

I like 40.5 gr.

BTW, I had problems printing the GIF on post 1. I made a quick one if anyone is interested. www.mprime.com/images/EricCortinaLoadTarget.pdf

 

[JamesnTN]

Erik,

I know testing works well for you at 100 for long range. Have you found a load at 100 and then took that same load out to say 500 + and found that it wasn't as good as you thought?
I'm asking because that's what I've found not once but a few times.

Here is a target and it is just a preliminary target of last minute powder and bullet change in one of my rifles. All three groups are only three shots but they all on paper looked good. Of just viewing these three test groups which load would you had thought been the ideal load and based on just judging from the picture why would you chose the load?

 

[BradY]

Would like to see pics of groups with 35.6 and 36.4 as well. Velocities?

 

[JamesnTN]

Would like to see pics of groups with 35.6 and 36.4 as well. Velocities?

I only have chronograph load data on one load right now but before I post I'd like see what Erik would had chosen based on just this one target.

 

[Raythemanroe]

James I would go 35.9 in my opinion..




Ray

 

[lawrence97]

With groups that size I would go for the one or two with lowest ES and load in between. But without velocities and only 3 tiny targets it's a tough choice. Sometimes a small group at short distances can have horrible ES hence your group size when tested at 500.
Either way, it looks like you the trigger squeezer is doing an awesome job.

 

[JamesnTN]

James I would go 35.9 in my opinion.
Ray

Ray,

I'm not sure now where I'll be I only had the 1lb of that powder lot when I grabbed it from the shelf. I may have enough left to shoot one more match. Either way I'm fixing to open up a jug soon and retest a new lot and I'm hoping for same results as the current lot I'm using.

Here's another question for you guys....

Of the one charge I chose I ran that charge over the chronograph to get a record of what it was doing for testing the next lot of powder.
I tested same charge with two different primers.

The load tested with a F205m had an avg velocity of 3022 with an ES of 10 fps
The same load using a CCI 450 avg velocity was 3007 with an ES of 8 fps

For 600 yards would you guys choose the faster speed or the lower ES

In testing these two primers at 100 I will say there was no impact difference on paper all shots went into the same hole.

 

[JamesnTN]

With groups that size I would go for the one or two with lowest ES and load in between. But without velocities and only 3 tiny targets it's a tough choice. Sometimes a small group at short distances can have horrible ES hence your group size when tested at 500.
Either way, it looks like you the trigger squeezer is doing an awesome job.

Thanks for the compliment. Like I had mentioned I was at the end of my rope and out of time for a match. I was testing one particular bullet and powder and decided to just start over and that I did. I loaded that 35.8 grain load and shot it at 100 it shot well no signs of pressure so I used it to 36.0 grains and it shot a little better and still no pressure, so I went up to 36.2 shot those three and there was just one bullet hole. No tears nothing and I thought dang ok this is it. So I loaded all three of the same loads and added a couple foulers and sighters and went back to the range and shot the exact loads at 500 yards. All shot well one load left me puzzled but I think I know why.
With saying that I loaded those exact loads again and waited till late that evening when the wind settled down and shot once more at 500 yards and results proved same. So I decided on the load by then but I wanted to do one more test so I loaded all three once more and early that next morning I went back and tested one more time at 500 yards and results yielded same for loads I had larger groups but still well within the accuracy node I was needing. Also the temps were 30* cooler that morning over testing so I was happy with the results. In three sittings the load I chose agged at 500 yards 1.8" before that the two sittings the day before the agg was 1.2"

 

[lawrence97]

I would choose the load/primer that proved most consistent over 10-20 rds shooting groups of 5. From 3007-3022 you are not gaining much and Mother Nature will make up for any differences that small and the same goes for your ES. And if after 20rds they both shoot the same I would flip a coin or conserve the primers that are harder to find.

 

[Erik Cortina]

JamesTN, if you read my method I don't recommend just shooting 3 groups. I recommend doing a methodical load work up shooting over a chronograph. There are some loads that shoot good at 100 but not at 500, that's the reason you have to shoot groups with incremental powder charges to identify the node. Chronograph data is also required to see where combustion is at its best.

 

[Brians356]

roklock,

Did you shoot the targets placed sideways, as presented here, or in the normal orientation?

 

[roklock]

roklock,

Did you shoot the targets placed sideways, as presented here, or in the normal orientation?

Sorry, damn iphone...I shot them in normal orientation. There is a light horizontal pencil line drawn through center of targets.

p.s. edited the pics to show correct orientation

 

[JamesnTN]

I'd stay with 61 grains and work with seating depth that seems to show the least verticle. What distance where these shots taken at

 

[trailrider121]

Roklock,

Did you use a chronograph?

 

[roklock]

I'd stay with 61 grains and work with seating depth that seems to show the least verticle. What distance where these shots taken at

100 yards...but I am confused 61 is lower than 60.5 but higher than 61.5, where 62 and 62.5 seem to be at the same vertical.

 

[roklock]

Roklock,

Did you use a chronograph?

I did, I attached an excel sheet with the ES and the MV in my first post. I have attached a PDF to this post.

 

[JamesnTN]

I'd stay with 61 grains and work with seating depth that seems to show the least verticle. What distance where these shots taken at

100 yards...but I am confused 61 is lower than 60.5 but higher than 61.5, where 62 and 62.5 seem to be at the same vertical.

The impact on paper don't mean squat as for aim point and impact, you can actually in some instances see a higher velocity impact lower than. A slower. This is due to where the bullet exits the barrel in the harmonics of the barrel. What I'm looking for here is the least amount of verticle between the targets you posted and it appears 61 shows the least verticle.
It appears though you have a tendency to pull a shot low right you should concentrate on squeezing the trigger to reduce those flyers. This will also show better results and give a bit better feedback on what you're doing.

 

[roklock]

I'd stay with 61 grains and work with seating depth that seems to show the least verticle. What distance where these shots taken at

100 yards...but I am confused 61 is lower than 60.5 but higher than 61.5, where 62 and 62.5 seem to be at the same vertical.

The impact on paper don't mean squat as for aim point and impact, you can actually in some instances see a higher velocity impact lower than. A slower. This is due to where the bullet exits the barrel in the harmonics of the barrel. What I'm looking for here is the least amount of verticle between the targets you posted and it appears 61 shows the least verticle.

I am trying to follow Erik's program so I am trying to understand how does this follow Erik's rules on the first page of this post? It says to look at groups in the same vertical, not shots?

5. Shoot 3 shot groups starting from lowest to highest. All groups are shot over a chronograph.
6. Examine target and find the place where consecutive groups line up vertically and ES is the lowest and speed increases the least from one group to the next.

 

[JamesnTN]

I'd stay with 61 grains and work with seating depth that seems to show the least verticle. What distance where these shots taken at

100 yards...but I am confused 61 is lower than 60.5 but higher than 61.5, where 62 and 62.5 seem to be at the same vertical.

The impact on paper don't mean squat as for aim point and impact, you can actually in some instances see a higher velocity impact lower than. A slower. This is due to where the bullet exits the barrel in the harmonics of the barrel. What I'm looking for here is the least amount of verticle between the targets you posted and it appears 61 shows the least verticle.

I am trying to follow Erik's program so I am trying to understand how does this follow Erik's rules on the first page of this post? It says to look at groups in the same vertical, not shots?

5. Shoot 3 shot groups starting from lowest to highest. All groups are shot over a chronograph.
6. Examine target and find the place where consecutive groups line up vertically and ES is the lowest and speed increases the least from one group to the next.

I understand and without seeing actual chronograph results for each target posted I'm only advising on what I see as what you posted on the visual apse the of the target only.

 

[roklock]

Hello,

Ok, going to delete first post and start a new one to clean it up...This time I have included a "table" of my chrono info, I have also attached a excel graph as well.

Been a lurker for quite a while...I have decided I want to just try some 1000 yard stuff near me. 300 wsm, 24" barrel, 208 Amax. This test was using H4350, I am a little confused on the results and looking for some direction. Last charge (62.5 gr) was not showing any pressure signs, do I load a few more to find max pressure? Or do I just use what I have to start finding seating depth? If so, 62 & 62.5 seem to be on the same vertical...so I would pick 62.5, correct?

GRNS 59.5 60 60.5 61 61.5 62 62.5 MV 2721 2741 2745 2777 2801 2808 2824 ES 67 12 19 35 23 29 18