I usually try to load for a f-class match the night prior but it seems I'm out of town the week prior to most of my matches this year. This will require me to do all my loading the week prior. Has anybody any practical experience to show if loading in advance has any detrimental effect on accuracy. Sometimes I try to get ahead with powder vials but that won't even help me this year. I think neck tensions will increase slightly but should still be fairly uniform which is the key. Comments appreciated, Eric in DL.
Loading in advance?
- Thread starter Cakes
- Start date
I load up to a month ahead of time with no issues. I agree regarding neck tension but when I break rounds down, those loaded that day still require the same effort to remove the bullet as those loaded a month prior. Also bear in mind that there are folks out there shooting surplus Palma ammunition loaded in the 80's that are still competitive.
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
For what it's worth . . . I have talked to several who travel and shoot matches. They load app .050 longer than their normal setting. When they get to their match, all they do is finish seating their bullets!
Sometimes during practice they see which seating depth shoots best!
They state when they "finish" seating, which only takes minutes, and it frees the bullet from the neck. They just like a "freshly" seated bullet, and they have the neck tension they desire!
Factory bullets sit on the shelves sometimes for years! The theory above sounds good! I guess it's what satisfy's you!
I am very much aware of galvanic corrision between two different metals bonded tight. It's almost like their breaking this bond as they claim the bullet pops when they are final seating them the day before the match!
I don't know if this applies to brass and copper!
It would be interesting if someone did have a response to this.
Sometimes during practice they see which seating depth shoots best!
They state when they "finish" seating, which only takes minutes, and it frees the bullet from the neck. They just like a "freshly" seated bullet, and they have the neck tension they desire!
Factory bullets sit on the shelves sometimes for years! The theory above sounds good! I guess it's what satisfy's you!
I am very much aware of galvanic corrision between two different metals bonded tight. It's almost like their breaking this bond as they claim the bullet pops when they are final seating them the day before the match!
I don't know if this applies to brass and copper!
It would be interesting if someone did have a response to this.
Guys-
Thanks for all the sound advice. My nights of staying up until the wee hours of the morning before a match trying to get all the loading done are OVER!!! I do like the " I load when I have the time", its going to be my new motto! Yes, Detroit Lakes, MN is home. Grew up in the area, moved out for about 10 years and been back for the last 20. Mr. Hanson; you still in the area? I'm out on Pickerel Lake. Thanks for all the feedback, Eric in DL
Thanks for all the sound advice. My nights of staying up until the wee hours of the morning before a match trying to get all the loading done are OVER!!! I do like the " I load when I have the time", its going to be my new motto! Yes, Detroit Lakes, MN is home. Grew up in the area, moved out for about 10 years and been back for the last 20. Mr. Hanson; you still in the area? I'm out on Pickerel Lake. Thanks for all the feedback, Eric in DL
I've never found any difference between freshly loaded ammo and ammo that was loaded weeks or months (or more) previously.
What I do look out for is to make sure the brass has been prepared (resized, cleaned, etc,) at least a week prior to loading and seating the bullet.
What I do look out for is to make sure the brass has been prepared (resized, cleaned, etc,) at least a week prior to loading and seating the bullet.
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
As I stated, Factory ammo sits on the shelf for years!
I usually load on Thursday's before the weekend match.
My statement above was just repeating what I have heard from several people.
I guess it's whatever you feel comfortable with!
I will highly second the comment on brass prep! My scores improved once I started paying more attention to my brass! Or I got better! ??? I am still going to put most of my efforts in brass prep!
Dennis
DennisH said:
I load in large batches and leave them long and seat on the day or at least the night before. More than 1 week of seated rounds will produce the popping sound, whether this equals more chamber pressure I don't know. Possibly if you are on pressure limits and then shoot rounds that have this "weld" effect you will go over pressure. I have found the popping sound and seating force is greatly increased for long bearing surface bullets that have been seated for a while vs a shorter bearing surface, in my case 105 Amax vs Berger 95 vld.
I am assuming factory ammo would never be loaded high enough for a "weld" effect to be an issue with pressure.
To the OP - whatever you do - do it consistently, its the variations that blow accuracy. Accurateshooter had an article some time back that stated brass that was sized and left for ~ 3weeks (from memory) required more seating force than brass that had been recently sized, the recommendation was to shoot brass in the order that it had been loaded...don't mix it up.
FWIW with all the other comments ... in October 2011 I shot competitively for the first time in three years. I placed second with a 250/16X (winner had 17X) in terrible conditions with ammo that had been sitting in a file cabinet drawer since November of 2008. I checked a few for length and they were right on, so I shot 'em as-is.
30 BR by the way.
30 BR by the way.
As far as cold welding goes, I think that those who clean the inside of their necks to clean metal will tend to have more problems with it. A friend tells me that before he seats a bullet in hunting ammo, that he touches his index finger in some Imperial Sizing wax, rubs his thumb on the finger , and then rolls the bullet between, before seating. He has checked loaded rounds that have been on the shelf for a couple of years, and it has not cold welded.
300 RUM
Gene Nowaczyk
By my profession I can tell you that Brass is an alloy that contains copper, and so the two metals are non-reactive to one another. Neither will cause the other to corrode. AKA cold weld. There are a lot of Superstitions/wives tales on this topic.
about twice a year I load several thousand rounds of 9mm, and 45ACP, a good 6 month supply, never have I had an issue. The same goes for .223's that get a yearly loading of 3,000 +/- 100.
not exclude the unmentioned calibers.
Oh, and as for neck tension, your not expanding the brass enough to normally break the yield point of brass, and with a good jacketed bullet it will not collapse. So neck tension should never change due to time in a static state I.e. bullet being seated in a brass case, now cold and heat will change the way your brass expands at time of ignition, so one could see a difference between hot and cold as one would normally see anyway. This could be misread as "oh I loaded my ammo last month"
In the short keep all loaded ammo in a cool dry place like a mil spec type box with a desiccant bag in it you'll be fine.
about twice a year I load several thousand rounds of 9mm, and 45ACP, a good 6 month supply, never have I had an issue. The same goes for .223's that get a yearly loading of 3,000 +/- 100.
not exclude the unmentioned calibers.
Oh, and as for neck tension, your not expanding the brass enough to normally break the yield point of brass, and with a good jacketed bullet it will not collapse. So neck tension should never change due to time in a static state I.e. bullet being seated in a brass case, now cold and heat will change the way your brass expands at time of ignition, so one could see a difference between hot and cold as one would normally see anyway. This could be misread as "oh I loaded my ammo last month"
In the short keep all loaded ammo in a cool dry place like a mil spec type box with a desiccant bag in it you'll be fine.
I have pulled bullets from ammunition that has set for several years, and depending ( I think) on how clean and dry the the components were at the time that the bullets were seated, there can be a huge increase in the pressure that it takes to break a bullet loose. for this reason, the usual procedure is to set a seater so that it seats the bullets several thousandths shorter before pulling the bullets. Those rounds that have gone through what is commonly referred to as cold welding require a lot of pressure to break the bullet free, even with a Rockchucker, and when they move, a loud pop is heard. From what I have read, cold welding requires very clean components, and does not necessarily have anything to do with bimetallic corrosion, although corrosion is one way that parts may become difficult to take apart.
If anyone wants to know more about cold welding, here is a pretty good link. http://www.coldpressurewelding.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=2&lang=en
If anyone wants to know more about cold welding, here is a pretty good link. http://www.coldpressurewelding.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=2&lang=en
300 RUM
Gene Nowaczyk
A "cold weld" takes place in a much more finite process then just a bullet sitting in a brass case. The pop would most likely take place from dirt (anything other then clean) taped in the case neck or bullet when seated, extremely fine particles can indent into the case and bullet forming a mechanical bond, therefor creating a pressure increase or what may seem to be a higher neck tension.
Since you have not observed this phenomenon, and previously written that it does not take place, perhaps you might want to wait till you have some experience with it. The increase in pressure required to move a bullet is huge.... exponential. Lots of fellows have run across this, it is not obscure, or rare.
300 RUM
Gene Nowaczyk
BoydAllen said:
No sir after 23 years of loading my own ammo I have not. Perhaps at times where I have noticed a pressure increase it was a "cold weld" not a miss weighed charge or some other form of corrosion, but doubt it.
My apologies if I have offend you.
The reason I say a "cold weld" does not take place is that the two surfaces (case and bullet) are not as smooth as one would think "pitted". A dirty case with powder residue (even after cleaning) will not even touch the bullet, but will case a "corrosion" bond. Dirt alone as stated earlier will have its own effect. A brand new case and bullet that has been polished smooth may have enough contact surface area to potentially cause a cold weld, but it is lacking the pressure needed to truly cold weld itself. (Most people do not polish the inside of the case neck and their bullets.)
I would be interested in more details of this phenomenon, like:
What you mean by a "POP", is this an additional sound Pryor to the muzzle blast, explain?
Does it appear through out every cartage of the same lot, or just one or two?
Does it appear on clean or dirty case and bullets?
What powder was used?
How was the ammo stored?
Was the ammo loaded in NV, AZ or FL, GA
I'm not trying to show boat, let me give you more insight to who I am. I am a physicist, more exactly a aerodynamicist, my physical science dissertation was on "the relative effects of bonding agents used with HTPB/APCP propellants at the molecular level, and particle compaction, comparison with high solid/metals used in SRB's (solid rocket boosters) also studied "the transonic flow over Cylindrical vehicles"
Now I'm not an expert in Metallurgy, but I am qualified to test theses theories. I would be willing to conduct tests, by measuring the pressure needed to push a bullet out of the case, if the forum would like. Anyone interested in this experiment please contact me off line.
Good reply....I am sorry if mine seemed a little cross.
The pop takes place when seating a bullet shorter than it was originally, to facilitate removing it from the case, when disassembling ammunition, or reseating bullets that were intentionally loaded long, in order to be reseated later, after storage, to a length that takes throat wear into account, or as a precaution against cold welding having a negative impact on pressures and accuracy. I believe that having dry bullets, and very clean necks, increases the problem of this occurring.
Recently, in a discussion with a friend, he told me that he rubs a little Imperial sizing wax on his index finger and thumb, and rolls bullets between them, just before seating them. He said that this has kept them from bonding with case necks during multi-year storage. He has a large collection of hunting rifles, many of which are in magnum calibers that are not used except for hunting big game.
When this happens, it is usually a progressive thing that does not happen to every loaded round at the same time. I think that this depends on the condition of each bullet/ neck interface. As you may know, benchrest shooters generally like to leave some powder fouling in their case necks, to create a more uniform seating feel. They brush, but not to the point where bare brass is exposed. Because it is not typical for competition rounds to be preloaded, of if they are, stored for long, this is not an issue for this application, but I think that this approach to neck cleaning may have benefits for those situations where ammo will be stored for longer periods. If you are shooting up all of your reloads within a year, and if some of the powder fouling was left in case necks, I am not surprised that you have not run into this.
Did you read the article that my link pointed to?
I do not think that the powder used matters, or the location where it was loaded. but I have not made a study. Perhaps others can chime in on this. I know that I have discussed this with several other reloaders over the years. Perhaps I will start another thread soliciting stories about shooters' experiences with this phenomenon.
The pop takes place when seating a bullet shorter than it was originally, to facilitate removing it from the case, when disassembling ammunition, or reseating bullets that were intentionally loaded long, in order to be reseated later, after storage, to a length that takes throat wear into account, or as a precaution against cold welding having a negative impact on pressures and accuracy. I believe that having dry bullets, and very clean necks, increases the problem of this occurring.
Recently, in a discussion with a friend, he told me that he rubs a little Imperial sizing wax on his index finger and thumb, and rolls bullets between them, just before seating them. He said that this has kept them from bonding with case necks during multi-year storage. He has a large collection of hunting rifles, many of which are in magnum calibers that are not used except for hunting big game.
When this happens, it is usually a progressive thing that does not happen to every loaded round at the same time. I think that this depends on the condition of each bullet/ neck interface. As you may know, benchrest shooters generally like to leave some powder fouling in their case necks, to create a more uniform seating feel. They brush, but not to the point where bare brass is exposed. Because it is not typical for competition rounds to be preloaded, of if they are, stored for long, this is not an issue for this application, but I think that this approach to neck cleaning may have benefits for those situations where ammo will be stored for longer periods. If you are shooting up all of your reloads within a year, and if some of the powder fouling was left in case necks, I am not surprised that you have not run into this.
Did you read the article that my link pointed to?
I do not think that the powder used matters, or the location where it was loaded. but I have not made a study. Perhaps others can chime in on this. I know that I have discussed this with several other reloaders over the years. Perhaps I will start another thread soliciting stories about shooters' experiences with this phenomenon.
300 RUM
Gene Nowaczyk
I Personally wash my cases in soapy water, dry with 95.995% iso alcohol, then vibrate for finial polish. Now when I want shiny cases (cause I like shiny) 
I spray the cases with a liquid car wax like turtle wax "ICE Synthetic Spray Wax" then vibrate. I also spray bullets with the same product. One reason to spray the bullets is to keep them from open air, which will cause corrosion, but it also helps in seating because it is a lube. Also it creates a protective barrier against powder residue, which will cause sticky cases. Wipe the finished cartage down with a micro fiber cloth and wow do they shine with no work at all. Oh believe it or not, if you polish a bullet to a high luster you will get higher velocities and the stated bullets BC will be more likely achieved.
As to where ammo is loaded; if you load in AZ,NV you have maybe 10% humidity, and in GA,FA you will have 85% or greater humidity. All bets are off if loads are made in an environmental controlled area of less then 10% humidity. So the humidity will cause corrosion between the case and bullet not major but enough to cause a bullet to stick.
I will attempt to measure the actual amount of pressure required to push a bullet out of the case on a new bullet and case to get some kind of datum/ reference point then maybe if people want to give ideas we can load some dummy rounds and measure those.????
You can figure the amount or required pressure by using the formula/ technique:
F = -k x
Here, F is the restoring force provided by whatever is being stretched (or squeezed), x is the displacement of the thing being stretched (or squeezed)., and k is the constant of proportionality. The negative sign (-) is important and just says that the restoring force is opposite in direction to the displacement. For example, if a spring is stretched by something in a certain direction, the spring will exert a restoring force on that something but in the opposite direction. Equation (1) also says that for an object which obeys Hooke’s law (such as a spring), the more it is stretched or squeezed, the greater will be the restoring force supplied by the object on whatever is doing the stretching or the squeezing. An applied force (F) acting on our “Hookean†object will cause it to be displaced (stretched or squeezed) by some amount (x). The ratio of the change in applied force (ï„F) and the change in the resulting displacement (ï„x) is called the spring constant (k)
I would bet it is less then 1 ATM, especially on a reduced neck tension die, but I could be wrong
I spray the cases with a liquid car wax like turtle wax "ICE Synthetic Spray Wax" then vibrate. I also spray bullets with the same product. One reason to spray the bullets is to keep them from open air, which will cause corrosion, but it also helps in seating because it is a lube. Also it creates a protective barrier against powder residue, which will cause sticky cases. Wipe the finished cartage down with a micro fiber cloth and wow do they shine with no work at all. Oh believe it or not, if you polish a bullet to a high luster you will get higher velocities and the stated bullets BC will be more likely achieved.As to where ammo is loaded; if you load in AZ,NV you have maybe 10% humidity, and in GA,FA you will have 85% or greater humidity. All bets are off if loads are made in an environmental controlled area of less then 10% humidity. So the humidity will cause corrosion between the case and bullet not major but enough to cause a bullet to stick.
I will attempt to measure the actual amount of pressure required to push a bullet out of the case on a new bullet and case to get some kind of datum/ reference point then maybe if people want to give ideas we can load some dummy rounds and measure those.????
You can figure the amount or required pressure by using the formula/ technique:
F = -k x
Here, F is the restoring force provided by whatever is being stretched (or squeezed), x is the displacement of the thing being stretched (or squeezed)., and k is the constant of proportionality. The negative sign (-) is important and just says that the restoring force is opposite in direction to the displacement. For example, if a spring is stretched by something in a certain direction, the spring will exert a restoring force on that something but in the opposite direction. Equation (1) also says that for an object which obeys Hooke’s law (such as a spring), the more it is stretched or squeezed, the greater will be the restoring force supplied by the object on whatever is doing the stretching or the squeezing. An applied force (F) acting on our “Hookean†object will cause it to be displaced (stretched or squeezed) by some amount (x). The ratio of the change in applied force (ï„F) and the change in the resulting displacement (ï„x) is called the spring constant (k)
I would bet it is less then 1 ATM, especially on a reduced neck tension die, but I could be wrong
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