Loading for Accuracy: Ruger 77/357 .357 Magnum

[MikeMcCasland]

Gents,

I've had Ruger 77/357 for little over a year, and haven't messed with it too much. That said, I had it threaded for a suppressor, and figured I'd start playing with it, if only to lessen the financial impact of shooting 300rds-400rds of Bergers each weekend.


That said, I've loaded for .357s in the past, but those were all revolvers. When I first got the rifle, I did some initial testing, and the groups were pretty bad; something like 4-5" at 100 yards.


I'd like to make this thing as accurate as possible, and I was wondering if you could borrow loading techniques from traditional bottle-neck rifles. (i.e. seating depth tuning etc.)? I was thinking of trying to find touch depth, and setting them back .020 for testing (assuming I could place a crimp without deforming it off the cannalure).


I'll be loading 158gr & 180gr Hornady XTPs behind either H110 or Lil' Gun to start out with.


I'm only planning to shoot this thing at 100 yards. Theoretically I don't see why you couldn't get decent accuracy out of straight wall cartridge; seems like the hardest variable to control in the process will be varying levels of crimp.


I know this type of rig isn't the norm for most on these forums, but figured I'd toss a thread out there to see if anyone had thoughts or experience messing with one of these?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If i was just guessing, knowing the 357 like i do, id say you probably have the best shooting 77/357 ever made. I could be way off but usually pistol rounds out of a rifle barrel stretched out to 100yds just dont make it easy

 

[jds holler]

I'd guess that searching for, and finding the right bullet is going to be the key to happiness. I've seen and probably have load books which list Contender type silhouette loads, and that may be a place to start. I don't think that the average pistol bullet is going to preform at a level that you desire.

I wonder what the possibility of extending your chamber out to 357 Maximum might offer. -- just trying to get more mojo behind a heavier, longer bullet. jd

 

[Doug Beach]

Why crimp?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Why crimp?

I'm no pistol loading expert, but I believe you're required to for ignition purposes, and to take the flare out of the case mouth.

 

[mmcu]

I could be way off but usually pistol rounds out of a rifle barrel stretched out to 100yds just dont make it easy

Not always the case. Here are some 150 yard groups shot out my TC Encore with a 24" MGM 44 Magnum barrel.

Longer distance shooting does get a little "interesting"...

 

[JSH]

77/357 I see a lot more shooting groups as you experienced than anything to brag about. YMMV.

 

[watercam]

I'm no pistol loading expert, but I believe you're required to for ignition purposes, and to take the flare out of the case mouth.

Agreed. Assuming you end up using magnum powders the crimp lets pressure build up enough to give you best burn and velocity.

 

[Doug Beach]

I'm no pistol loading expert, but I believe you're required to for ignition purposes, and to take the flare out of the case mouth.

He’s shooting them out of a rifle.

 

[rr2030]

Here are the page shots from the 1983 circa Reloading Guide for Handgun Accuracy / IHMSA. Don't know how much it will help. Maybe the Cowboy Action shooters may have some useful info. agree that it would be nice to have it chambered in .357MAX but paper and steel wouldn't know the difference at 100 yards. And ....... Dot think you have to limit shooting to 100 yards, back in the 80's we were shooting Silhouettes out to 200 yards with hand guns(yes one class was standing, unsupported), certainly you could find some enjoyment shooting at that range with in limitations. One load I used in the .357 chambering involved using better BC pointed 180 grain .358 rifle bullets. I had to inside neck ream the cases so they would fit my tight Contender chamber. That was in a 10"-14" barrels I don't know if there would be any kind of issues in a longer rifle barrel.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I think you should try crimped and no crimp. My current contender barrel likes no crimp better. Try it and see.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I load 357 for my Henry rifle and it aint no PRS rifle but it does decent at 100yds. Shoots around 3-5 inches shooting 125gr with 4.6gr CFE pistol powder. I load them using a taper crimp die in stage 4 of my Dillon 550, they are copper plated so it is a heavy crimp but it does not crease the bullet. The crimp is kinda important in the rifle if they are loaded in a tube magazine so the recoil don't set the bullets back.

 

[sawcarver]

I have four 357 max rifles for deer they all shoot MOA at 200. I dont crimp and I use small rifle primers, those two things really helped. Having a full case also made it shoot better. I'm shooting compressed loads of h110 in all of them, two with Xtps and two with 150gr cutting edge raptor (very spend bullets) the raptors I use for the high BC and low expansion velocities.

 

[JSH]

The rotary magazine will limit OAL much like a lever gun will only feed some designs and lengths.

Ruger won't bring a wheel gun back out in 357 maximum. IMHO they would have a definate winner in a bolt action with real locking lugs chambered in 357 max. A magazine with a tad extra length would be like able as well.

 

[ebb]

I have a friend that has one he bought to use as a suppressed rifle. His supersonic loads shoot way better than that. PM me and I will call him and see if he will share data with you.

 

[357Mag]

Mike Mc -

Howdy !

I’ve shot a lot of .357Mag in both revover and a Marlin 1894SC.
Also have experience loading for/shooting an H & R SB2 .357Max, a full-custom bench rest rifle set up for .357Auto Mag......but using a .358” cal barrel and bullets. Also have put in a lot of range time the past 9yr experimenting w/ reduced loads in .35 Remington for 100yd target work, using my Marlin M-336 XLR. .35Rem .

My point: I’ve danced all around the .35 caliber short range bench rest
( and other smaller capacity .35” cal ) application(s).

Right now, I’m leaning towards what Sawcarver talked about.
The Cutting Edge .358” cal turned brass 150gr Extended range “Raptor” bullet is capable of delivery astounding accuracy. And, while I have yet to try any of Cutting Edge’ .357” cal monolithics; they’d be the first bullet I myself would try were I to attempt what you are doin w/ a .357Mag case.

Velocity and twist rate are key pacing items. The brass and copper monolithici bullets are typically longer than traditionally constructed bullets of the same wt. I can say that in my M-336XLR .35 Rem, the same load of IMR4198 that produced one ragged hole 5 shot 50yd trial groups did not provide enough vel to maintain bullet stability through 100yd.
Start out w/ just the case capacity of a .357Mag, and one can see potential challenges; there.

For a variety or reasons, my sense of it is that lighter 110-125gr .357” cal bullets are not where the answer lies ( IMHO ).

I’m a big fan of WW296 in .357Mag w/ SWCs of 158 - 172 gr.
I also shot WW296 in my .357 AutoMag ( .358” cal actual ). In that application, I shot 3ea 3-shot 300yd groups one after the other....that each measured 5/8”. WW296 can provide superb accuracy.

Thinking out loud about case capacity...... if testing showed promise using a Cutting Edge bullet; perhaps the gun could be throated to better accommodate their use.... while preserving or perhaps slightly boosting .357Mag case capacity ? That might be an alternative to a whole sale re- chamber to a larger capacity .357Max ?

I do think there’d be no harm in doing all the case prep stuff you could, that would make your case as close to being the same as possible.
Perhaps your brass has primer pockets that are so deep as to render primer pocket uniform if unecessary ? You could at least check.

Crimp -
If you don’t have to... don’t. I DKjust how uniform case wall thickness of maintatream .357Mag brSs

 

[357Mag]

Oops -

Sorry ! Keyboard locked up....

I DK just how uniform case wall thickness might be... for mainstream .357Mag brass ? I did check it on my .357Max brass, when I was considering using the SB2 for 100yd “ Factory “ class Score shoots.
In that application, it didn’t help or make any appreciably difference in obtainable accuracy.

Going back to crimp for a minute.... if you might be able to get the rifle to shoot well via use of bullet “jam” in-lieu of a crimp?
You’d just have to try it.

In .357Mag brass, you don’t need a cannelure in the case, or even nickel plating ( IMHO ).


With regards,
357Mag

 

[MikeMcCasland]

For those of you not crimping, are yall not flaring the case mouths, or just hardly flaring at all? I've never not crimped a straight wall cartridge.

 

[jds holler]

I've loaded jacketed 38's and 357 without flaring the necks. Just gotta be careful, and I imagine some bullets may have a base that makes it difficult. Just having a good chamfer should be sufficient for jacketed stuff. jd

 

[rr2030]

The rotary magazine will limit OAL much like a lever gun will only feed some designs and lengths.

Ruger won't bring a wheel gun back out in 357 maximum. IMHO they would have a definate winner in a bolt action with real locking lugs chambered in 357 max. A magazine with a tad extra length would be like able as well.

.357 MAX is a great cartridge wish there were more firearms chambered for it. Don't understand why rifle makers that offer .357 mag don't offer it in .357 MAX